had_enough

Hi All, thanks for the great feedback. Alefantis typos were fixed shortly after I published it, and I may do a revised edition to add all the new developments and incorporate the suggestions made. Thanks again!

VieBleu

This is a great comment - you actually took time to read the whole thing. I have to admit I applauded the effort without reading it, now I'm going to go back and edit my applause.

With that many mistakes, the book discredits the effort, does not help it. Can you imagine that being pulled apart by press - don't even know Alefantis' name? C'mon.

PlEASE keep watching and contributing. I believe we especially need eyes on claims of Debunking to make sure that things that are being called debunked really are, for example. Anyway thanks.

victuruslibertas

Thanks for all your effort and by a ratio of 18:1 , most people find the Katy Perry videos which precedes the PG phenomena very relevant ro the investigation. You will also see in my video that there are many critical thinkers posting some credible comments. Thank you again, Here's a link to the video. https://youtu.be/ElgMxNupb1s Take special note to the comments.

mvrak

milliBytes???

Blacksmith21

P. 22: "And finally, the Podesta Brothers [sic] were apparently staying in Portugal at the time of Madeleine McCann's disappearance..."

Comment: To my knowledge, this has neither been proved or disproved. Recommend changing verbiage to reflect this fact.

mathemagician33

i'm one page in and already i see that the owner of comet ping pong is erroneously referred to as JEFFREY ALEFANTIS. come on people. i applaud the effort, but a little proofreading would go A LONG WAY.

pizzagate_is_fake

This book's title is perfect. Dummies. Pizzagate is fake news. Only dummies believe it.

ant8693

Case closed guys. Let's pack it up, we're done here. /s

Nadakai

Excellent. Have an upvoat

YingYangMom

Very well done! Thank you.

wecanhelp

While I'm grateful for you for putting so much effort in this, and I certainly thank you for that, I think it's unfortunate and dangerous that you dedicated 6 pages (almost 10% of the entire book) to a Katy Perry video that isn't and cannot be confirmed to have anything to do with this. It's incredibly easy to discredit the entire investigation just based on this, and I think it would be in our best interest for you to remove that part entirely. Even as someone who doesn't doubt Pizzagate is real, I feel that the speculations around that music video are farfetched, and a good example of confirmation bias.

ALDO_NOVA

I disagree somewhat - only because KP is someone very familiar to millenials and parents - you show them it has been right in front of them all this time, and it could open more eyes.

doesnt have to take up that much space imo

make a condensed version as well, 5-10 pages - so there is a comprehensive version and "lite" version

wecanhelp

Or could close more eyes, since we would be pointing at something that is based on no hard evidence but subjective speculation, and would be presenting it as fact regardless.

VieBleu

I think you are exaggerating - the ENTIRE investigation is not discredited because of pizzagate images being embedded in pop culture. However, I do agree that it could just be mentioned without as much space devoted to it, and other more relevant art put in. There is plenty of that to fill up five pages.

GenghisSean

I agree with @wecanhelp that to a newcomer the way this information is presented is immensely important on supporting the veracity of these claims. I think more than enough dirt in the form of verifiable facts has been discovered: the suppression of news on Norway, the destruction of "Conspiracy of Silence" tapes, the sketchy shell companies, inappropriate instagram posts, etc.

The problem is when the author places their speculation and assumptions on the same level as these facts it lessens the credibility of those true, verifiable facts. We need to grow the pizzagate army, and whenever our claims seem crazy and unbelievable to outsiders we need to be very careful to only present information that we know is true and not anything that needs more investigating. If we let confirmation bias continue without scrutiny then to outsiders they will see a witch hunt and nothing will come of this movement.

Another important point is that all memes and introductory material must emphasize the nonpartisan nature of the investigation/allegations. Too many people think this is just a conspiracy to attack the democrats. Too many investigators let their vendetta against the democrats impact their language. If we don't fix these problems we won't be able to unify against this great evil.

wecanhelp

This is a very important comment, much better put than any of mine on the subject. If you guys read one comment, read this one.

wecanhelp

I'm not exaggerrating at all. If I'm new to all this, and my first encounter with the topic is through this book, then I might assume, based on the highly speculative nature of the entire closing section that is being presented as fact , that the whole topic has also been researched with the same amount of critical thinking, and as a result dismiss the entire idea altogether. That is exactly how deliberate disinformation works. Even if everything about the Katy Perry speculations is true (which I doubt), we have no way to tell, based on the information that is currently available to us.

VieBleu

"the entire investigation" - bit over the top

wecanhelp

The entire investigation, in the mind of the newcomer who sees us lack the critical thinking skills required for such investigation.

VieBleu

well we both agree that one or two photos as a pop culture mention that newbies might recognize would be fine, but the other 5 pages could be devoted to more relevant art, yes? So I hope OP sees our lingering discussion and makes the relevant updates.

wecanhelp

One or two photos with an accompanying phrasing that doesn't imply we know this for a fact but rather is humble enough to say maybe should be fine. But I personally think that no mention of anything this speculative would do the least damage.

VieBleu

what is weird about it to me is that it was out months before pizzagate hit - a good argument it has no connection or relevanct. But then the conspiracy minded would ask, "OR does it?..." lol

wecanhelp

That in itself wouldn't make it irrelevant. Child sex rings themselves "were out" months and years before Pizzagate hit, y'know.

VieBleu

I thought what made it relevant to child sex rings were the pizza and ping pong scenes and messages. What else in the video connects it to child sex rings? Without pizzagate there is no connection, unless I must have missed it.

wecanhelp

Pizzagate has discovered those symbols and double meanings, but they've been around for years, and some probably decades. Pizzagate is here to collect and organize everything relevant on the subject, but relevant things have, by definition, been around longer than the investigation itself. That's all I'm saying.

VieBleu

Ok, just wondered if I missed something in the video as it is hard for me to watch/listen to such drivel - there is a lot of ice cream/candy stuff in it

GenghisSean

I agree. The bit about the golden headless sculpture has been debunked as referencing that serial killer even though it is still disturbing.

ALDO_NOVA

what you dont get is that Dahmer was posing the body in that same hysteria pose that is well known to Occultists...

he also created a shrine out of skulls, bone and the spine of his victims

wecanhelp

Could you please point to a source of that? I'm interested. I know many things have been debunked without widespread awareness in the community, such as the #hotard thing, or Kim Noble's artwork being connected to Comet Ping Pong.

ALDO_NOVA

hotard has not been debunked, if it has please enlighten me

on this you are correct: Kim Nobles art was never at comet nor connected, someone just used it to correlate a similar image from a Comet show poster depicting disassociation

wecanhelp

Let me change my phrasing: it is now commonly considered debunked (because you can't rule out a certain subjective interpretation of a conversation with 100% certainty). With that in mind, see this comment of mine for explanation.

VieBleu

Please show wher it is "commonly considered debunked." Genuinely interested in seeing this. Referencing your other comment is not enough to make it common.

wecanhelp

See my reply to your other comment for a more detailed explanation.

GenghisSean

I didn't know the #hotard thing had been debunked. I'll have to look for the thead that talked about the artwork to make sure I'm not mistaken.

Edit: I found it. This article says it's an artist's rendition of someone writhing violently in a psychotic fit. sauce

wecanhelp

Thank you, very interesting source.

As for #hotard, if you look at the picture again (as also found in OP's book), you can see that Alefantis and the other commenter are calling each other hotards. It's clear in the context if you read the conversation and don't only focus on the hashtag.

VieBleu

I'm not buying your argument that this is DEBUNKED. That is a big word to throw around and as a mod especially I am concerned that you would say this because if you eliminate posts on your asumption that it is "CLEAR" in the context, I think you are wrong to do so. Not only is it not completely clear, it certainly isn't proven. Debunked is too strong a word to use for 1 opinioin - yours.

I'd direct you to this thread where Alefantis has not made an appearance to explain what he was saying, and a whole lot of people seem to be asking and commenting about it - https://twitter.com/hashtag/hotard

wecanhelp

Firstly, I can see you've found my other comment where I clarify my phrasing. The reason for me to opt for this instead of editing my original comment was accountability. I don't have anything to hide, so I simply explained why my phrasing was not a hundred percent accurate.

The #hotard thing being "debunked" is a conclusion I didn't come to on my own as your sarcastic personal attack suggests, but rather gradually internalized the idea after seeing it mentioned in the community a few times. Sadly I didn't keep track of all those mentions, but I remembered a comment thread here for example where the user explaining how the #hotard hashtag refers not to the infant but the two men got the most upvoats by far on this particular submission. What seems to confuse some people is that on the #hotard baby image that is in circulation there's a caption on the baby's face citing the definition of hotard, but if you examine that, it's pretty clear that the caption and the UrbanDictionary URL have been added by an early Pizzagate investigator to explain what the hashtag (also highlighted in editing) in the dialog between the men means. The URL even points to the Polish version of UrbanDictionary ( pl.urbandictionary.com ), the original researcher was probably browsing from Poland or through a Polish proxy/VPN/node at the time.

The fact that Alefantis is not responding to related questions on Twitter also isn't proof of anything. Imagine for a moment that he does, and he clears himself about his calling a baby a hotard. What happens next? It is immediately clear to everyone that every other allegation he didn't address is at the very least suspicious and possibly true.

Using my common sense, I agree it is unlikely they're referring to the baby in that context. It's way more interesting why Alefantis would post a baby picture, why scottfazzini would react with " I want one ", why babies are a recurring theme on their Instagrams anyway, and so on. I don't personally believe we're right about all our assumptions, that doesn't mean I think we're wrong about all of them. Pizzagate is real, but so is confirmation bias.

Finally, me being a mod has nothing to do with anything, I remove submissions based on a checklist predefined by the community, and my mod activity is entirely public. Any one of you can check it out at any time, and you're encouraged to do so.

VieBleu

ok thanks for your reply. Not sarcastic, just pointed. Also not personal. I still think that this is not in the "Debunked" category, it is not clear, and so would be accurately put in a "Questioned" category and should not be called debunked. Being a mod obviously gives you power of deletion and flair and more weight to your comments, so it was appropriate for me to mention it. If you flair a comment "Debunked" because your personal common sense decides it is "clear" when itsn't necessarily so, that would be the harm.

Also after further looking at this book i agree with your original criticism - too many mispellings and problems to be a good primer. You are right about that.

wecanhelp

I understand where you're coming from, thanks for making it clearer, and I will be the last to say that mods don't make mistakes because I know we do. I will say this though, I might use the word "debunked" in a casual comment (and even then I'll rephrase if I catch myself using it without merit), but I would require actual evidence with a source for flairing something as debunked. And I certainly encourage everyone to question others, especially mods, just like you did, the only thing I did not appreciate was the attitude. But I do admit I've made a mistake with the phrasing of my original comment here, and I will pay attention to that in the future.

VieBleu

Cheers, mate. You sound like you are going to be a good mod, and that's gold.

VieBleu

where has this been debunked? I have seen great analysis done that both the serial killer pose and the statue refer to Crowleyism and known poses of severe distress in hysteria and under torture.

I would like to see your link to the debunking.

GenghisSean

I found it. It's still fucked up, but apparently it's a rendition of someone writhing violently in a psychotic fit. sauce

VieBleu

If you are interested, I'll look for the info on how it is actually also related to images from Crowlism and his "magick" system and has an esoteric meaning - yes the backward arch I'm talking about. So with that, it is not debunked but quite the opposite, being related to pizzagate because of both torture and black magic ritual practices.

GenghisSean

Perhaps debunked is the wrong word. I meant only that people should stick to hard facts instead of speculative, assumption based, extrapolation. Their is no direct link from the statue to Jeffrey Dahmer even though it appears quite similar. The occult meaning of the fish and the number 14 is probably a better example of something that will turn newcomers off instead of opening their eyes. As interesting as the occult symbolism can be I think a more productive ebook would restrict its focus on the verifiable facts of shell companies and child trafficking, instead of imposing the author's assumptions about intention and motives.

VieBleu

I see where you are coming from, it is probably valid for some newcomers. However I differ in opinion.
First words are important in a word based forum and DEBUNKED is an especialy potent word, so I would say don't use it for this argument, the connection of the arched back art to pizzagate, torture, ritual murder and the celebratin of it is definitely not debunked. Further, I think that for a portion and I would say a large portion of newcomers, the occult angle interest is very strong and they will keep reading. People are interested in the occult and this is borne out by all the popular culture that deals with it. I certainly found it chilling to look at the occult sacrifice type art and pictures and see the connections between the artists, Alefantis who calls himself an artist and "loves" the DC art scene, and some of their themes of Satanism, Thelema and other black magic worship which manifests in part as the abuse of human young, blood sacrifice, the moment of the kill and a whole lot of other terrible stuff. There are all angles to pizzagate, people can like or not like aspects but it all meshes together at some point and people have to stop looking away. There is actually a direct link between that pose and snuff rituals, black magic or not, so the discussion is relevant and should be included. There was also a lot of art in the same collectino with kids being tied up to tile walls which look a lot like the tiles in the old transit tunnels underground. Regardless, this freaky art collection of a major Democratic operator itself needs a lot of light shed on it. I don't think a single piece of his collection is dissassociated from the themes of pizzagate.

GenghisSean

That's an excellent point. I think the disturbing art is definitely an important piece of evidence, and the occult connection is undeniable. The only reason I suggested playing it down is because the criminality can sometimes take a backseat to the sheer shock of the heinousness off the acts these sick people are committing. In order to bring them to justice I think focusing on incriminating evidence over interesting evidence will keep the investigation focused and energized. We will have decades to analyze the more interesting aspects of what is occurring behind closed doors but in this moment the investigation should be targeted directly at stopping it from continuing. There is no doubt that the occult, nightmare inducing aspects of this network are interesting I just don't think they are the best way to spend our time.

spiderleaks

Thank you for this!

interested

nicely done.

VieBleu

Let me be the first to congratulate you on this effort. A real asset. Thank you.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't read it, just a cursory look. My bad. I have to take back my support of this ebook because if you can't even get Alefantis' name right in the first few pages, why should anyone look further?
DEFINITELY NOT A GOOD PRIMER FOR NEWCOMERS - but a good idea as a title anyway. I do think this borders on disinformation actually, partly because of the number of pages devoted to Katy Perry.