Philly-area child rapist arrested, 'kept articles of clothing as trophies' i.e. handkerchiefs w/ pizza-rel. maps ( pizzagate )

submitted by psmith85

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/real-time/Bucks-County-suspected-serial-child-rapist-arrested.html

'For as long as 40 years, officials said, handyman William Charles Thomas stalked and groomed his child victims, raped them, collected articles of clothing as trophies , and sometimes wrote graphic details on pieces of plywood that he used in renovating trailer homes.'

Let's take this back to the most notorious Podesta email.

Pizza = pussy & penis / dick / ass / head. Not 'girl,' not sex organs or orifices in the physical sense. But the engaging with those things i.e. the receiving or the penetrating, usually in a controlling, coercive, or semi-coercive way i.e. with trafficked individuals or prostitutes. If you want to tie it to the pelvic triangle, men have something a pelvic triangle (at least as pubic zone) when seated too (obviously with a penis at bottom of it), and the social media evidence fully confirms pizza does not only relate to females.

Map = mark/stain of semen, blood, menstrual fluid, etc. Given that those in question are into S&M child sex, it probably involves blood. The stain is basically a map of the encounter. It's not just a random codeword choice. (remember the band Sex Stains)

Handkerchief = not entirely certain, but probably just means thing [related to CP / deviant sex].

Black-and-white [handkerchief] means S&M sex w/ minors, as does panda and dominos.

If the thing is related to sex and can easily be mailed, the overwhelming likelihood is that it is some kind of fabric item, i.e. a towel, underwear, shirt, pants, etc. And if it has a map on it, that has mean to a stain or mark of some kind (what else can be on a fabric but a stain or mark), and it's related to S&M sex, then it probably means it has blood. What else could 'seem to be pizza-related' (i.e. possibly but not certainly be pizza-related) but that?

That's what the handkerchief with pizza-related map is. It is a cloth item with blood and/or other fluids on it from an S&M sex session involving children. We know that the realtor does not view it as incriminating evidence, or she would dispose of it and certainly not mail it or send emails about it. The only possibility then is that Podesta might want the item as a memento, and the reason Podesta was asked about it is because it is normal for pedophiles to want these kinds of mementos, as did the above child rapist.

The only difference between William Thomas and Podesta is that the former is a handyman who lives in a trailer park and the latter is among the most connected and influential people in American politics.

chickyrogue

and was almost the of the secretary of state i beleive

psmith85

Yes he had been selected by Hillary to be Secretary of State in the event that she won

chickyrogue

i know waaaay scary thought

i hope sessions lives up to the hype

chickyrogue

you are wrong about panda it means something much more sinister

psmith85

Tell me, what is more sinister than S&M sex with children that often results in the murder, dismembering, and even eating of the children? I've heard the 'black eyes' explanation but haven't seen any evidence for that, while there is evidence that the black-and-white nature of a panda would make it a similar codeword to dominos (which are black and white), black-and-white handkerchief, etc.

chickyrogue

it hasta do with the black eyes and how you obtain those results

someone posted pics on voat a few weeks back ... its very disturbing

psmith85

It's not speculative unless there are alternative explanations that can be proposed. Since there are none (if there are please provide), it's a well-founded thesis, not speculation, the latter of which has pejorative connotations.

JeremiahSinclair

There have been alternative explanations for the handkerchief reference, both nefarious and harmless. So yes, it is speculation -- which is fine, but let's call it what it is. Connotations or not, the word has a specific definition, and I think this still qualifies. Again -- there's nothing wrong with something being speculation.

concernedaboutitall

But, my only question is, what kind of person finds a bloody/semen stained handkerchief (as a realtor) and doesn't drop it straight in a trashcan? Or if it is really bad, bring it to the attention of police?

psmith85

Someone who is a pedophile herself and/or knowingly associates with/facilitates the activities of pedophiles

concernedaboutitall

Yes. I see Susan, John Podesta's contact used the code words, but reading the email from the realtor she only describes it as black and white. Strange.

madhatter67

Because the realtor understands what it is and the significance and doesn't have a problem with that?

psmith85

Not if she is a pedophile herself and/or knowingly associates with/facilitates the activities of pedophiles

AreWeSure

Haven't you heard? the code is not part of pizzagate anymore. At least, that's was people keep telling me.

psmith85

Oh really, even though that's what the name of the scandal is based on? Yes I do get your sarcasm. But I think it's very strange to say the least how much people are focusing on compiling endless amounts of 'hmmm...interesting' tangential information, while having no working theory on what the very code that started all this and is a foundational part of the evidence actually means.

newworldahead

@AreWeSure ... I find it fascinating that you laugh at any single evidence we have on pizzagate, yet you seem to believe in the "pee gate" hoax...

https://voat.co/v/news/1555436/7576898

Let me quote you:

This dossier on Trump has been going around a while and reporters have been trying to confirm this stuff for months. The "sexual" part is just a small part of this. This dossier was compiled by a real person, with genuine experience and contacts in Russia and it was started before Trump had the nomination. He is ex MI6 and now works for a private firm Does that mean all of his stuff is gold? No, it does not. However, what is being reported tonight is that the Intel Agencies have checked out the source network and now believe there is enough credibility to the charges that some of this info was briefed to the President and President elect.

So much bs for a so-called skeptic

AreWeSure

You seem to have misread my post.

The dossier is real and was not from 4chan. It is not a hoax.

You seem to miss all the skeptical comments about "trying to confirm" and "does that mean the stuff is gold?"

Also are you aware of the rosneft and Erovinkin developments since we've learned of the dossier?

newworldahead

The dossier is real and was not from 4chan. It is not a hoax

Then by all means, show some evidence. I will gladly look into it. Something real and tangible, ok? Not just anonymous insiders.

AreWeSure

The dossier talked about a deal involving Carter Page and 19% of the State oil company Rosneft. In December 19.5% of Rosneft was sold in the largest privatization in Russia since the 90's. The buyers were secret. The half percent could be brokerage commissions. Also in December Oleg Erovinkin was found in the trunk of his car

newworldahead

Since you didn't provide any link, I searched and found a few articles. First one from businessinsider ( http://www.businessinsider.com/carter-page-trump-russia-igor-sechin-dossier-2017-1) ) which starts like this (emphasis mine).

A dossier with unverified claims about President Donald Trump's ties to Russia contained allegations that Igor Sechin, the CEO of Russia's state oil company, offered former Trump ally Carter Page and his associates the brokerage of a 19% stake in the company in exchange for the lifting of US sanctions on Russia.

Since the beginning, the problem with this fake dossier is that the claims are unverified. It doesn't matter what all these people say, if they keep saying things without actually showing evidence, they cannot be taken seriously.

Then I found this from NYTimes. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/08/world/europe/carter-page-donald-trump-moscow-russia.html?_r=0 and https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html

Once again accusations without evidence:

Mr. Reid, in a letter to Mr. Comey in August, asserted that Mr. Trump’s campaign “has employed a number of individuals with significant and disturbing ties to the Russia and the Kremlin.” Although Mr. Reid cited no evidence and offered no names explicitly, he clearly referred to one of Mr. Trump’s earlier campaign advisers, Carter Page.

Mr. Page, a former Merrill Lynch banker who founded an investment company in New York, Global Energy Capital, drew attention during the summer for a speech in which he criticized the United States and other Western nations for a “hypocritical focus on ideas such as democratization, inequality, corruption and regime change” in Russia and other parts of the former Soviet Union.

Perhaps I am not looking at the right place? Where is the evidence that this dossier is real?

AreWeSure

The dossier is real. As in a real intelligence product created by ex MI6 guy who is known to and has credibility with many Western intelligence agencies including ours. He reported gave us info on the FIFA soccer scandal from a few years ago. He also worked in Russia and has contacts there. This BBC report has a rundown of the creation of the dossier and how it got to the CIA http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38612066

The dossier makes these claims among others.

  • Russia compiled dossiers on both Trump and Clinton.

  • The Clinton dossier included recorded phone and conversations. The Trump dossier including material that could be used to black mail him. Kompromat is what the Russian call it.

  • Russian has tried to cultivate Trump for 5 years including with sweetheart Business deals, but Trump turned these deals down

  • Russia has been feeding intelligence to Trump and his deal for two years on their political opponents including Hillary

  • A follow up report say Russia has kompromat on Hillary (emails.)

  • Russia has had direct contacts with many Trump advisors, Page, Flynn, Manafort,

  • When revelations about Manafort came out, The Trump company lawyer met with a member of the Russia legislature in Prague.

  • The head of Rosneft raised the issue of removing sanctions on Russia stemming from their invasion of Ukraine with Carter Page

  • Carter Page met with the head of Rosneft, Igor Sechin to discuss a large stake in Rosneft in exchange for lifting sanctions. This report was Oct 18. Significantly this was "confirmed by a close associate of Sechin.

Are these claims True? Right now everything is unproven.

The most interesting one right now to me is the one saying Page could benefit from the Rosneft sale. The sale went through in December. We still don't know exactly who bought 19.5% of the world's largest oil company. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-rosneft-privatisation-insight-idUSKBN1582OH

The other reason this is interesting, is two weeks ago, a very close associate of Selchin was found dead in his trunk

An ex-KGB chief suspected of helping the former MI6 spy Christopher Steele to compile his dossier on Donald Trump may have been murdered by the Kremlin and his death covered up. it has been claimed.

Oleg Erovinkin, a former general in the KGB and its successor the FSB, was found dead in the back of his car in Moscow on Boxing Day in mysterious circumstances.

Erovinkin was a key aide to Igor Sechin, a former deputy prime minister and now head of Rosneft, the state-owned oil company, who is repeatedly named in the dossier.

Also a month after this death, Russia arrested four people for treason including

Two Russian intelligence officers who worked on cyberoperations and a Russian computer security expert have been arrested and charged with treason for providing information to the United States, according to multiple Russian news reports. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/europe/russia-hacking-us-election.html?_r=0

However, it seems like someone in Russia might believe the dossier is real.

newworldahead

This article once again contains the same bogus vibe. Here is a quote from the article you cite

It has been widely attributed to Christopher Steele, a retired British intelligence officer. Mr Steele, who runs a London-based intelligence firm, was reportedly hired by anti-Trump Republicans to investigate Mr Trump's ties to Russia during the battle for the party's presidential nomination. In the general election campaign the research was funded by an anonymous Democratic donor. But since Mr Steele has been in hiding since the report surfaced on Tuesday, there is no confirmation that he is the author.

See, once again, we don't know who decided that "it had been wideley attributed to Christopher Steele". We have to take their word for it because there are no links and no source to back up this claim. They just write stuff without providing any evidence. And then we are led to believe that the supposed author cannot confirm he is the author because he is in hiding. This is oh so convenient don't you think?

This smells so fishy, the whole thing. It's completely bogus... there is no substance. Nothing. Just speculation.

AreWeSure

I think in this case, they don't want to be the ones confirming it to be Christopher Steele. His name was first published elsewhere. What I have not seen is any of the others news companies challenge that. Because many of them had access to this. Many other places have followed up on this. That's one way to tell if something is likely to be fake. Can other reporters develop the story further. With Steele they definitely have https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author

They may not have developed it to your taste though, which gets us to the problem. Part of your objections seems to be about epistimology -how do we know what we know. And Part seem to be because uncertainty is a giant part of the Intelligence world. In the Intel world, "a high degree of certainty" is almost the very highest assessment, they will give.

Ambiguity is always present in the intel world. He could be told this things, but were the people he talked to in position to know these things? Did they just hear rumors or do they know? Were they deliberately feeding him lies? Etc, etc.

I would say it something that bears keeping an eye on.

newworldahead

It's not just a matter of developing the story further, it's a matter of providing evidence. They always do that, they are not able to give us names. It's always "One colleague said", "A respected official declared...". Who are these people? They never tell us but we are always supposed to believe them.

Can you imagine if we did the same with pizzagate?? "A well respected man reported that he heard children screaming at comet ping pong. When asked if he was really sure about what he heard. The man responded without hesitation: 'Absolutely, yes'. Also, a witness apparently said that he was 100% sure that 'pizza' was a code word for pedophila."

Quoting your article:

On Thursday night, as the former spy was in hiding, having fled his home in the south-east of England, former colleagues rallied to defend him. One described him as “very credible” – a sober, cautious and meticulous professional with a formidable record.

The former Foreign Office official , who has known Steele for 25 years and considers him a friend, said: “The idea his work is fake or a cowboy operation is false – completely untrue. Chris is an experienced and highly regarded professional. He’s not the sort of person who will simply pass on gossip.”

The official added : “If he puts something in a report, he believes there’s sufficient credibility in it for it to be worth considering. Chris is a very straight guy. He could not have survived in the job he was in if he had been prone to flights of fancy or doing things in an ill-considered way.”

This is why it smells so fishy. Why no one appear on a TV show to blow the whistle? A leftist media who is anti-trump, like CNN for example, would love to give a tribune to Steele and his friends. And he would have the whole establishment on his side to offer physical protection. Hell, he would even get all the protection he needs from George Soros himself. So there is nothing to fear for him. The establishment is not hostile to him at all. Why would he go hiding somewhere in the southeast of england. Doesn't make any sense.

AreWeSure

You do realize that saying the dossier is real is not saying the dossier is proven right?

The evidence the dossier is real is that many news orgs came out after it became public and said we received this but could not verify it. They had the dossier months before the posts 4chan posted to as the origin of the dossier. Mother Jones wrote about before the election, but didn't go into specifics. After the story became public, the author has been identified, an ex MI 6 agent who now works privately.

DarkMath

"saying the dossier is real is not saying the dossier is proven right".......AreWeSure don't you think you've been hitting the "Begging the Question" fallacy a little too much lately?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

What's up AreWeSure. Why are you here?

Can you at least change your username to ImLikeAlmostPositivePizzaGateIsNotReal? That would just be fair given your benefit of the doubt only ever goes one way.

@newworldahead

AreWeSure

Why do you that the distinction I made is begging the question?

People were claiming this was a hoax document created on 4 chan. It was not

DarkMath

Because you're really really really hoping anyone who reads your comment saying the dossier is real just takes the next teenie-weenie step and conclude the dossier is factual.

Come one AreWeSure, enough with the bull shit. You're not fooling anyone. You're not here to investigate, you're here to spread disinformation and doubt. When you get caught out you ignore what you don't like as you've done countless times with me. Like with the wife of Herb Sandler and her possibly injecting "pizza-related" into an email where it didn't belong, you don't need any evidence to dismiss that lead. But come any evidence you don't like Katie bar the door.

Why is that AreWeSure?

AreWeSure

Because you're really really really hoping anyone who reads your comment saying the dossier is real just takes the next teenie-weenie step and conclude the dossier is factual.

That would only apply to people with poor reading comprehension.

If you look at my original post I was responding to this fantasy of a post that quite popular when the dossier was first revealed somebody on 4chan and then twitter claimed to be author of the dossier and gave it to Rick Wilson who gave it to the CIA.

For those curious.

autist at /pol/ submits one of his sexual fanfics to an anti-Trump journalist journalist thinks this is legit and submits it to the CIA and other journalists looking for a big 'scoop' CIA thinks this is real too and files it away with what they know about Trump to use it to twist his arm when he assumes the presidency supposed story gets published many keks were had over at /pol/ ??? CIA is going to get purged after being embarrassed for the nth time about supposed damning evidence

This was wrong for several reasons. Among them by the time this guy said he gave it Wilson, the dossier had already been circulated to journalists.

And when I made my post I made it quite clear, the info was unverified.

Idiots at 4 Chan might believe this but that is not how US intel works.

This dossier on Trump has been going around a while and reporters have been trying to confirm this stuff for months. The "sexual" part is just a small part of this. This dossier was compiled by a real person, with genuine experience and contacts in Russia and it was started before Trump had the nomination. He is ex MI6 and now works for a private firm. Does that mean all of his stuff is gold? No, it does not. However, what is being reported tonight is that the Intel Agencies have checked out the source network and now believe there is enough credibility to the charges that some of this info was briefed to the President and President elect.

DarkMath

"Does that mean all of his stuff is gold? No"..........You mean like when I asked you to watch "Clinton Cash"? That's weird you would claim the "where there's smoke there's fire" defense WHEN YOU REFUSED TO EVEN WATCH CLINTON CASH.

AreWeSure you're not fooling anyone here. Everyone here knows something's up with you. If you believe where there's smoke there's fire then you'd have watched "Clinton Cash" and seen all 107 George Webb videos. You have done neither. All you do here is shit on any and all evidence pointing to the DNC, PizzaGate, Clinton Foundation, CIA or Dyncorp.

If that's not bad enough you push any and all evidence showing Trump is some Russian spy in deep cover with a fetish for Golden Showers.

You're pathetic AreWeSure. We're talking CHILDREN here. The Haitian police caught MISSIONARIES in their latest haul of human traffickers. Gee AreWeSure I wonder where we heard that before.

We're talking human ORGANS here. We're talking mountains of wretched evidence of the most vile and disgusting corruption in American History and all you can think about is Donald Trump likes Golden Showers. You're pathetic. You are a pathetic little worm.

;-)

newworldahead

Where is the proof that this dossier was written by the ex MI6 agent you mention? Also, how can we find more info about this ex MI 6 agent? Does he have a blog or something? So far, everything you say is just baseless speculation.

nomorepepperoni

Maybe the code means something, then... :p

DarkMath

Be sure to take @AreWeSure 's comment with a grain of salt. He doesn't think rich older white people are capable of committing crimes. So that means when wife of Herb Sandler writes to John Podesta that the handkerchief the realtor found in their vacation rental was "pizza-related" we are not to get suspicious given the realtor NEVER SAID in the original email it was "pizza-related". We are to assume older rich white people couldn't possibly be involved in criminal activity. So therefor the wife of Herb Sandler must have talked on the phone with said realtor and been told it was "pizza-related" despite no concrete evidence she actually did

1) Talk to the Realtor

2) Even if they did talk, there's no evidence the handkerchief was brought up.

Basically if you just keep telling yourself rich older white people are not capable of committing crimes everything makes sense and you can stop acting like a deplorable shit lord about everything.

Deal? Yes? Great, I knew you'd understand.

;-)

AreWeSure

handkerchief means gift

pizza means upcoming

related means wedding

map means anniversary

OMG! It makes so much sense.

Kwijibo

This seems very speculative. Your link (being related to PG) is not really proven by you text.

psmith85

It's establishing that pedophiles keep garments of their victims as mementos. This was known/suspected by most readers here, but it's helpful to have it supported by a recent story. This potentially being related to a flurry of recent arrests of sex abusers also ties in to PG. If you use deductive reasoning and look at the handkerchief email in light of all the other 'pizza' evidence, specifically the large amount of evidence on social media, there is no other explanation than what I posted. If there is, please provide it yourself instead of saying 'seems speculative.' If something is speculative, then there should be readily available alternative explanations for it other than the speculation. If there are such explanations, please provide them. This is not speculation, it is a thesis supported by deduction and evidence.

Kwijibo

The the handkerchief from the e-mail belonged to the child victim?

psmith85

Yes, an alternative explanation to that. Why would Podesta want it otherwise (other than as a memento)?

Kwijibo

Maybe it was his to begin with. Maybe he used it to wipe off his dick and forgot to dispose of it.

psmith85

OK, but it's still a memento from S&M sex with children, making this not speculation. Whether the fluids are his or the victim's doesn't really matter. Also, semen likely wouldn't create enough of a stain to qualify as a 'map'/memento of the encounter. There was likely blood on it that was either transferred by penis or came directly from the victim. You're not accounting for the black-and-white pattern mentioned. And if you're claiming it's not from sexual intercourse, are you actually suggesting someone would want a tissue/cloth they masturbated into mailed to them?

Kwijibo

Maybe he did not want it, maybe the sender of the e-mail was just telling him to be more careful leaving DNA evidence lying around.

psmith85

OK but what is your hypothesis about what was on the handkerchief and what activity it came from, other than sex with children?

Kwijibo

That is my hypothesis. But maybe it was not a souvenir and maybe it was not even a handkerchief.

psmith85

You haven't given a hypothesis. If it was from innocuous activity, why would it matter if his DNA was on it? And what other small, mailable item would have a sex stain on it other than some kind of piece of fabric? And what are the odds that it would be 'black with white' and of that fact being relevant? You can't say 'maybe it wasn't _______' and label something as speculation without offering a 'it could have just been _______'. Failing to do so would make you, not me, the speculator. I gave a full hypothesis; if you think it's just speculation then you have to offer a full, alternative, similarly likely hypothesis.

Kwijibo

His DNA could be used to convict him. It could have been code language. But the fact remains that your link was not directly related to PG, it was peripheral story at best.

psmith85

Convict him of what, if not sex with children? What I'm focusing on is your willy-nilly use of the word speculation in a pejorative sense, which smacks of Snopes-esque fake debunking. It relates to Pizzagate just as much as the other stories being posted daily about trafficking and sex abuse arrests, and it relates to the single most important piece of evidence (among the hundreds or thousands that there are) in the entire scandal, which is the Podesta handkerchief email, because Thomas's memento garments and Podesta's handkerchiefs are the exact same thing and there is very strong evidence this is the case, with no alternative explanations having been offered.

Kwijibo

OK, your statement that pedos keep mementos and therefor the handkerchief is important is an unproven and therefor speculative statement.

psmith85

It's not speculative. What is your standard of proof, other than a confession from Podesta that 'yes, it referred to a memento from S&M child sex abuse.' I've made a well-grounded case for it, and no alternative cases have been made. If it was not well-grounded, alternative theories should be readily available. They aren't. Again, that's a thesis, not speculation.

Kwijibo

Speculation:

a. Reasoning based on inconclusive evidence; conjecture or supposition. b. A conclusion, opinion, or theory reached by conjecture.

psmith85

It's not inconclusive. It's conclusive. Meaning a conclusion has been reached, and no alternative conclusions to the inquiry have been put forth. It's not by conjecture either, since there is a wealth of evidence that pedophiles and sex abusers keep mementos from victims, that pizza means what I said it means, and that black-and-white means what I said it means. The meaning of map can be deduced and is entirely consistent with the remainder of the thesis.

Kwijibo

What is the conclusion?

psmith85

That the black and white handkerchief with seemingly pizza-related map is a memorial piece of fabric, likely stained with blood, from S&M sex with children.

Kwijibo

Ok, that is your conclusion based on known facts, it is still speculation until proven.

psmith85

Like I asked before, what is your standard of proof, other than a confession from Podesta or the realtor?

Kwijibo

Yeah, that would do it.

psmith85

So only that? That's absurd and out of line with precedent. Only a small percentage of criminal convictions involve confessions.