Open Thread #2 (7th week, 2017) ( pizzagate )

submitted by wecanhelp

After the first Open Thread last week, we would like to keep experimenting with this weekly discussion format, so here you go.

The purpose of this thread is simple: to let you discuss anything and everything that, as per the rules of this subverse, wouldn't be allowed in submission form. This is an experiment with giving the community back some of its freedoms inherently lost in the approach of maintaining a strictly investigative environment, all the while maintaining that environment outside of the Open Thread.

Seize this opportunity to ask the community your most pressing questions, discuss meta strategies, or absolutely anything that the community is interested in.

Comments will be moderated according to the very liberal rule (3) of the Moderator Rules . Beyond that, this thread should be self-moderated by the community using votes.

One relevant issue that was recently brought to our attention and we would like to address is that the Submission Removal Log only goes back about eight days, depending on how heavy the traffic is. People have been concerned that some removed submissions that would otherwise provide good content for another subverse such as /v/pizzagatewhatever are never resubmitted by their original authors and, as a result, lost forever. Fortunately, this is not the case. While the log itself doesn't go back beyond 20 pages, submissions deleted earlier than the last log entry are not wiped from Voat's database , they can still be accessed if one has the link to them. Therefore, the best way to find your way back to a submission like this is by bookmarking it while it's still accessible. There is also nothing stopping you from submitting the link to one of these deleted posts on another subverse, archiving their content, or a combination of both.

TabiCatTwo

Was there a final determination if the Catherine Agnew tweets were legit? The posts became overwhelming. Do we know how they were discovered?

VieBleu

you've been a pleasure. Please revisit!

neurofluxation

I just wanna say... Great work by all involved. We're making headway like a freight train under full power.
Keep it up!

VieBleu

I am glad there is a place I can put this

I just want to say that just recently, like only the last few days, this subverse at Voat seems to be working well finally. The stories on the front page are just tearing it up, one after another great posts. The moderation seems to be settled in to something that works and I just am not seeing the crazy shill army attacks, bots, discrediting attacks and massive misinfo stuff just now. Usually it is a calm between storms but it is so good to be able to use the forum when it is working like this. There is still some shillery and misinfo of course, but more of a normal amount. And the really unsavory mods don't seem to be around trolling us anymore

So whatever happened, whether it was the new CEO and his house cleaning, or just the plain endurance a lot of the good commentors here have shown, just wearing the shills down and upping our game week by week, or a combo and more, - hooray.

wecanhelp

Thank you, it is especially good to hear this from someone like you who's been often in conflict with the mods.

For what it's worth, two of our moderators (Phobos_Mothership and gopluckyourself) are gone, and two very promising new moderators (abortionburger and sensitive) have come on board. I think this is at least partially responsible for what you're experiencing, but if you have some further input on what you believe works differently and better now than before, I'd be interested to hear.

I'm sure this is, as you've said, a calm between storms in many aspects, but a storm usually means we've hit a sensitive spot, so those shouldn't be feared too much either.

VieBleu

ha thanks for asking.

For the record, I am not "often in conflict with the mods", I have never had a problem with a submission deletion or the usual moderation issues BUT I take a hard line on lax mods that tolerate and even facilitate public doxxing with calls for harrassment, vigilante justice and violence and obvious shilling posts against minority groups to discredit the work here. Then yes, I am not afraid to tango because what is going on here is too important. The two mods I especially appreciate being missing in action are the only two I ever went to the mat with and they were KevDude and Crensch - if you enjoy racebaiting and hate, you'll especially be missing that one. KevDude btw took the teeth out of our sidebar no doxing rule when he rewrote the rules and prevaricated that it only applied to forum members, and the public was fair game. I went as far as I could with that one to VictorSteinerDavison and we never fought at all, but we did discuss. After a period of time our sidebar was reposted with doxing against the rules, presumably all doxing. So VSD if you prevailed with your own stated prefernces there that I supported, I thank you for that too. I have no problem with total free speech forums, I just don't think that format serves the interest specifically of the specific pizzagate subverse as I have said many times.

Long story short, I wear the comment Crensch made about me to "warn" mods about me like a shiny badge of honor on my bio here.

Crensch (about) VieBleu -" Even if he sounds reasonable, he's attempting to manipulate you into issues."

lol makes me laugh every time. The only issues that mod keeps hitting are very much his own.

Now that's the history and hopefully it will be put to bed once and for all, as things are looking up here. Good idea for the open thread overall, also helps things work better. VB💎

wecanhelp

Thanks for the input. For what it's worth, Crensch is not gone, and the philosophy that he and kevdude stand for are largely represented in the current mod team as well. You're saying:

I have no problem with total free speech forums, I just don't think that format serves the interest specifically of pizzagate as I have said many times.

But we shouldn't forget that the Pizzagate research community is a guest of the larger Voat community, and not the other way around. Voat has been good to us, unlike Reddit, and we should respect its philosophy in return that puts free speech above everything else, as long as that doesn't mean illegal activity. As far as doxxing goes, Voat users are anonymous by default, and sharing information about them, even publicly available, should always considered doxxing. Now when it comes to entities with their identities unhidden, publicly available information about those entities will not be considered doxxing, since it's out in the open, and it's a simple matter of connecting two freely available dots. When sharing information and practicing free speech turns into a criminal act, we delete and ban for that, and we always will. It is just that, as long as no illegal activity has been implied, we stay out of it, and encourage the community itself to self-moderate. As a user, I will downvote vigilante justice and violence in the comments, trusting that if enough people do, it becomes a non-issue. But as a mod, I will not touch it. Hope that makes sense. We're not aiming to re-discuss this or change this practice, I just tried to explain and hopefully reassure you that supporting free speech shouldn't be interpreted as everything goes .

VieBleu

thanks for your response. I didn't think Crensch was gone, I said he was missing in action here - that's good enough for me lol.

I have been on highly controversial topic forums in the past, and learned, when you want to win over public opinion, it is better to moderate heavily in terms of racism, hate speech whatever. If you don't those minority posts get used as representative of the whole effort by bad actors. It does not endanger the entirety of free speech to have specialized forums once in awhile that for common sense reasons have a stricter policy as a shield against bad public relations. I don't expect you to agree at all, just trying to make myself clear. It is working here pretty well the way you guys are doing it, so hopefully that will just continue on. : )

The specific doxing I had an issue with was a person in real estate, not necessarily a "public person" but the office number of course was online as well as personal cell phone. The real problem was that the dox post specifically called for voaters to harrass the woman and "ruin their life a little". I don't think that doxxing and harrassment together in one comment should stand. But it did. So what I was doing as you state in your answer above is "self-moderating" as part of the community, but I got roundly abused for it by the two mentioned. They'd prefer to rain down abuse than actually discuss. So that's that I hope. If I talk about this those two find me and start abusing or insulting me in comments later on. We'll see if that happens again. It's as though on this great free speech forum, I am not supposed to talk about the specifics of how these things went down. we'll see. I'd prefer to look forward but if it is going to be brought up, I'm going to make sure my side is represented.

wecanhelp

I remember that one, and it was a tough call, I'm not sure I agree with how that was handled personally, but as long as we're on Voat, I will try and err on the side of free speech, too, and I'm not saying I (or any other mod, for that matter) will never make a bad call by doing that. On another platform, I would probably agree with you, and moderate more aggressively just to stay safe. Here, even what we do now is seen as too aggressive, and we try to respect that, while juggling a lot of interests. Anyway, glad we at least talked about this.

VieBleu

yeah, thanks! a reasonable talk about this is a big step forward. So I'd like to ask that you reconsider defining me both in writing and in your head as someone who has conflicts with mods often. That is not accurate at all. C and KD only and then they put that misinformation out re me. But watch out! even sounding reasonable I MAY be seducing you into "issues"

see what I mean? too funny.

wecanhelp

I've based that remark on my own observations of your behavior, I've seen you act frustratedly and provocatively more often than not lately. With that said, this dialog will certainly warrant an update of that mental model in my head. Hope to keep this attitude up.

VieBleu

omg well if you have time you should give me an example, because I have had no conversations with mods at all that come to mind in the recent past - maybe you are talking about being provocative with percieved shills? Yes I am a fighter on that front.

I think you are being nice, but I have to say, my attitude isn't different. At all. So there is a disconnect somewhere. Feel free to expound if you feel like it, even later. This stuff can get tedious I know. I just am surprised as I never complain about posts being removed even of others, or most decision of the mods really - only the instances I cited. If I am wrong, happy to hear about it.

"I've seen you act frustratedly" - I've just been posting and commenting. really don't understand this.

wecanhelp

I apologize if my memory is not serving me perfectly. I know I saw you acting provocatively, but I'm not gonna say it was always towards mods. I know you've had some beef with mods, though, that will probably be what you've mentioned yourself, and I probably have a mixture of these two impressions of you in my head. Hope that makes sense.

VieBleu

must be, cause I haven't had anything provocative go on at all since I took the doxxing/harrassment stuff straight to the top with VictorSD. I have a good reputation with sincere denizens here for good reasons. thanks for your reply and here's to good vibes.

Dasistnichtsehrgut

Once banned by a shill mod for lame and bogus reasons, is it possible to get one's account back from a legit mod?

wecanhelp

What is the name of the account that has been banned?

Dasistnichtsehrgut

Dasistnichtgut

wecanhelp

@Millennial_Falcon , why did we ban this user?

Millennial_Falcon

He kept reposting the same Rule-4-violating post (a couple times yesterday, then again today).

wecanhelp

Thank you.

In that case, I would have banned you for spamming, too, @Dasistnichtsehrgut .

OrwellKnew

Can confirm, is possible. Happened to me. We just need to be respectful of each other and possibly make an apology if needed

edit: should have said subverse ban. don't know about account ban

draegspir

Hey guys, I want to take this opportunity tell everyone that I made Voatify - Voat app for iOS for the sole purpose of facilitating the pizzagate investigation on Voat. I'm a part of the Reddit pizzagate exodus, and I am glad to be here with all of you doing great work. Just want to say, thank you all for giving your time!

SturdyGal

Best of luck Eva. A pleasure reading your comments.

Marfa-Lights

Time for a break. Some music for us all. https://youtu.be/XUnKmvAPaoc Good luck everyone!!

Dasistnichtsehrgut

I think the Etan Patz case if investigated properly may hold links to Pg... There was alot of cover up involved, with parties involved related to those in high govt places (like Secretary of State). The boy was never found, the suspicious parents were quickly written of as suspects, it basically started the Center for missing and exploited children, one of the lead detectives "committed suicide," the attorney whose father was Sec of state (and the only one to ever resign!) went to the same Uni as Podesta just a few short years apart... search voat for the topic for a few links. The upvoats were being tampered with so it never saw the light of day.

Dasistnichtsehrgut

What's up with the crap moderators? Can't someone legit open a new thread to keep the shills from moderating????????? Seriously, what's the reason this hasn't been done?

Millennial_Falcon

"Hey, let's complain about the people working for free, because I'm butthurt they are enforcing the content-quality rules the community approved."

Dasistnichtsehrgut

I think you're butt hurt for other reasons.

dmthirdeye

Something I've noticed is while the forums ARE pretty active at all times of day there are very few people who are actually upvoting OR downvoting comments and threads. Like a 20 to 1 ratio, I think it would help the entire community if we were all making sure we use the upvoat downvoat buttons and steer the spread of information in the right direction. At least to a point where most threads can be read simply by community submission of voats : P There are shills here trying to do the exact opposite so I feel like its important for the overall success of our efforts. GL out there folks the veil has been lifted its only a matter of time now.

SturdyGal

I can take a hint. LOL

witch_doctor1

Good point....I went to be the night before the David Seaman attack thread, and then when I woke up it had been massively upvoted somehow and there were lost of names in that thread that I did not recognize.

Dasistnichtsehrgut

Uncracking the codes: WALNUTS have been related to pedophilia/Pederasty since 600 Bc. See the wiki link for a write up fire the history of pederasty and an interesting image of a youth bringing a love gift of walnuts. From an earlier post:

Pedophile link to W A L LN U TS (attempt #4)

Millenial _ Falcon is at it again... so I'm guessing there's something here bc no one deleted the countless other bogus links that are put up every 10 minutes....

From Wiki article about pederasty: At the palaestra Youth, holding a net shopping bag filled with walnuts, a love gift, draws close to a man who reaches out to fondle him; Attic red-figure plate 530–430 BC; Ashmolean Museum, Oxford. ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty#)) ))

This is evidence that since ancient times WAL NU TS have been associated with love gifts in pederastic (I.e. pedophilia) relationships.

Google search of walnuts shows there is a strong sexual component to their history/use: https://www.google.com/search?q=walnut+lore+sex&oq=walnut+lore+sex&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.6227j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

This is pizza gate related bc it serves to help decode the podesta emails by giving additional background to the use of walnuts for uses other than a tasty sauce. Much like pizza is not simply dough cooked with sauce and cheese.

OrwellKnew

I like the concept. How about hosting AMAs with some research personalities and maybe victims?

wecanhelp

We've never been against that, but AMAs should always be verified. The best way to start one is making sure that the person can and is willing to verify their identity, and then contacting a mod about it so we can help with the arrangements.

OrwellKnew

Great, thanks for the info!

oneposteach

Does anyone listen to thehighersidechats.com? A guy named Ryan Zimmerman was on it talking pizzagate and I thought brought up some good points. One of them being how Madeline was in vitro, and other thoughts about her eye condition. I'm currently looking into if any of the kids at Sandy Hook have the same condition.

dmthirdeye

Indeed taking care of our self is important, remember we are supposed to be messed up from looking at this crap its vile, and twisted feeling gross after diving into it is normal.

I got a morale boost from the other day that got deleted because its just a puff speech for us to feel better haha - https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1655920

S3m8o3

I am glad that we're finally seeing some movement. Arrests here and there, only small fish, but it got things rolling. Still think that the name holds people back.

nitro169

Once this does break, how do we ensure this never happens again?

dmthirdeye

The penalties for corruption as any kind of enforcement officer or government official has to be permanent disbandment. These freaking guys get away with anything, write their own laws, finance their own companies with money they get from offshore banking and tax breaks lol All ridiculous, all needs to be eliminated. There needed to be a massive awareness but that has already happened and once major arrests happen people will really be looking out for it IMO.

Needs to be something like anytime you are working with kids if you assault them in any way massive punishments. I still don't understand how we live in a country where raping a child gets you considerably less jail time than raping an adult.

SturdyGal

  1. Imprison everyone connected with the trafficking racket.
  2. Screen everybody who works with children much more carefully and continuously monitor.
  3. Add oversight to charitable groups working with children
  4. Create true and monitored safe places for children to report (1-800 number that is manned by trained and screened people)
  5. Overhaul adoption procedures - no more bonuses for placing children
  6. Attempt to reduce demand for child trafficking which is very difficult, since it has been hard historically hard to cure. We need to put a lot of research into this. Failing a cure, pedos do need to be isolated, IMO.
  7. More stringent review of organ donor procedure - family MUST give permission

Dressage2

I think citizen investigations into corruption of all sorts has now exploded to the forefront because of Wikileaks. Once PG high level arrests are completed (always the optimist) there will always be citizen investigators stalking the corrupt thanks to the internet and social media. Please think of us and design the best software for our specific needs so as to help facilitate in bringing justice to our communities. We can accomplish this with software that allows us to sift, sort, analyze, and archive our metadata seamlessly. Good luck.

nitro169

Trumps health care should include therapy for those traumatized by what we have witnessed.

VieBleu

truth. Pizzagate PTSD.

juhos

From time to time people ask me "tldr" and evidence for pizzagate. I usually say to go Voat but many times answer is something like "I'm not going to read all that and try to find real evidence". So what is THE BEST article, video, etc to give those people?

witch_doctor1

I have anxious anxiety that manifests in frequently refreshing pages where I might learn of the next big happening...let's recap the last 10 days or so...multiple anons saying arrests in the near future and that PG is real...AJ, RDS, Roger Stone, Cernovich, Owen Shroyer and others saying stuff publicly, Wikileaks Vault 7 is "upcoming", a good portion of the 7th floor got pink slips....I'm sure I left stuff out.

So the point is...when is everyone's guess as to when the first huge event drops? I think it happens sooner, rather than later....and it usually happens Mon-Wed because of the news cycle. I just hope I'm not disappointed on Thursday, like I have been for the last several Thursdays.

farmmama10

Also, 60 Minutes is covering a story about a gymnastic team doctor engaging in sexual abuse of gymnists tonight! I assume they're underage? Considering that the MSM has done the OPPOSITE of reporting this stuff, perhaps the dam is beginning to break? One can hope.

dmthirdeye

Could be today, 2/19 was the most common predicted date that I saw going around.

A halftime speech of sorts from me to all PG researches that the mods deleted haha = https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1655920

witch_doctor1

Funny, good speech, I always like closing with the last huddle scene in The Replacements...."Pain heals, chicks dig scars and glory lasts forever"

JrSlimss

Wikileaks posted the image of an F22 engine under "When is Vault 7?" So probably February 22nd - Wednesday.

witch_doctor1

I hope you are right...what if Vault 7 was the Weiner laptop? How awesome would that be?

crystalclearme

I want and need direction in digging into who and how the hell the mainstream media conglomerates are continuing to drive this conversation. If you can get people to really look at the amount of actual evidence it confirms the need for a true and valid investigation. I have more source documents with names and evidence than these hearsay and propaganda articles connecting Trump and his people with Russia. Shoot = wikileaks has more documents and emails connecting Clinton and Podesta to the Russians than they do regarding Trump.

Dasistnichtsehrgut

Media matters for a start.

And wikileaks podesta emails has write ups of all the presidential candidates sent from HRC to all the news outlets so they all have the same info/same talking points/ same interview questions. Dig into that - who sent them, who their boss is, etc.

crystalclearme

Thanks - that is great idea to track and watch.

JrSlimss

Can we push to make the day Wikileaks releases the FBI's files on the CIA and pedophilia a national holiday called "White Hat Day"? It can be a celebration of the good people in law enforcement who refuse to be corrupted, from the age of cowboys, to Serpico, to now.

Fuckingcucks

pizzagate vigil/funeral

witch_doctor1

Only if we can have a drinking game associated with it.

crystalclearme

Great idea. I have bottle of champagne chilling and encourage everyone to have one. I also have started a list of what I consider "demands" for when this breaks wide open. For ex: I want every building or award or anything named after a perpetrator to be RE-named in honor of a victim- I want something named in honor of Gary Caradori, Seth Rich, etc-

JrSlimss

Yeah, I think we can expand it to whistleblowers in all industries.

SalOfTheEarth

I posted this this morning, but didn't get much play. This is probably a better spot anyway. I think we need to be more honest and bold with how we speak about pizzagate, I think we need to ground it in the reality of sex, human, and organ trafficking and I think we need to take it off line. If you like this video please consider sharing it.

https://youtu.be/ygsXuWqRiIA

VieBleu

please add wildlife trafficking to the list. Animals near extinction are chopped up for parts and trafficked or trafficked live.