Threatening/harassing is in the eye of the beholder, which seems to encompass a lot for you.

Regardless, I hope things get better for you.

No, I just don't acknowledge that it's happening to you. I acknowledge it's happened before and I'm even open to the possibility of it happening now to someone of importance. But it defies logic to ascribe monumental significance to mundane events, however much you try to find sense in them. Humans are great at finding patterns that aren't there. Just look at the clouds.

Regardless, I hope you find peace. And I hope you can find the ability to not sweat the small stuff or think the worst of every random person who you perceive to slight you. Maybe they aren't a government agent. Maybe they're just a regular old asshole.

I would say that they all probably gave you a look because they reacted with suspicion due to you being hyper vigilante about anyone looking at you. So yeah, 30 people in a week wouldn't be crazy large. Especially considering how many people you see over the course of a week. But saying those acts aren't subtle seems to be a dodge. How can they be 'normal' enough to not be adequately captured on video, but also not subtle? It's either or not both.

So your argument is that because government waste exists, they would naturally spend it on a program to make your life a living hell by circuitous convoluted means instead of say extraordinary rendition? Or black sites? Or regular trumped up charges with extended stays in jail? Like why waste the time to subtly, sorry not subtly, gaslight someone with a huge network of agents? How do you scale up that program? For every person targeted, there must be at least 30, maybe 100 people who are just going around coughing at people or gesturing at them from a car or whatever. Explain how they could do that to a town of people. Because you've said multiple times that they're experimenting on you to test out how to 'control' people. So naturally, they'd have to scale up from just you, to lots and lots more people. Just an ever growing army of people solely paid to harass people in innocuous ways? IMAGINE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE! We'd be in economic heaven! "What do you Steve?" "I cough at the guy on W 81st street and gesture to the lady on E 27th street" "NO WAY! You work the E 27th lady too? I break into her house on Thursdays and move around her furniture. Ya just never know your co-workers do ya?"

I would love to think that you've read about delusions and are well versed in the literature, as I am, coming from a family of psychiatrist. And I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you wouldn't speak about topics you don't understand, but you have been severely misinformed. Delusions are not less frightening or easily controlled. Delusions are not simply crazy ideas. They are disordered thinking. They result in the brain not processing information in a rational way. You don't have the benefit of your rational mind to say 'Obviously my organs haven't been taken out and replaced with identical organs.' because you lose certain cognitive functions. And persecutory delusions are the most prevalent type of delusion. A popular comedian Chris Gethard suffers from bipolar disorder and spoke about times when he was manic and had delusions. He thought every time he pushed the crosswalk sign, people were monitoring him so he didn't push the buttons for fear or informing agents of his whereabouts. In hindsight, he realized this was a delusions but that didn't make it real to him in the moment. It didn't make it less frightening or more easily controlled. Because he had disordered thinking.

I must say I truly am shocked that several people in your life have been convinced by your 'evidence'. So there are quite a few of the several who believe that it is government sponsored? You must be a very persuasive person in real life because you've failed to convince me online. Go into a lecture circuit and bust this thing wide open if you are that persuasive.

So you've filed police reports about the break-ins I'm guessing?

And just so I'm hearing you correctly, you would similarly be aggreved at coughs if it happened to you too many times for your liking? They would start to feel threatening and you would suspect the government?

And I agree with you that people definitely research how to control/suppress dissidents, but I'm afraid it isn't in the ballpark of what you think. It's jamming the internet during protests, botnets, militarized police, etc. not people driving around gesturing at one specific person. How cost effective would that be? How time intensive would that be? How many men/women would have to be involved?

And I don't know if you've ever known anyone with a delusion, but no, they can't just 'ignore it'. I once knew a woman who was convinced a military man was trying to seduce her, when he legitimately had no idea who she was. And she continually thought every plane or car was him spying on her. Impossible to ignore. Harmless maybe, but impossible to ignore. Why would you assume someone could ignore a delusion?

It's interesting you've told people in your life about your experiences. I'm assuming you must trust them a lot to be able to confide in them in that way. Do you ever wonder if maybe you should trust their judgement about your experiences? Have any agreed wholeheartedly with your assessment of a government conspiracy to control you via subtle random acts?

Strawmaning it up! I never insinuated that you had affiliation with this woman. I was saying, if you watch her videos, do you see yourself assuming the same things? i.e. people cough at you, or the mailman or delivery people are stalking you, or advertisements are aimed at you. Because she has been documenting things for ages and for literally anyone else, she appears unstable even when she isn't agitated. Like, when she's not confronting people, she is suspicious of everything, which seems to be similar to your own circumstances.

Damn about the evidence! I'm assuming 'they' stole the camera?

And no response to if maybe...just maybe...people are reflecting your own emotions back at you? Like you being suspicious and super hyper vigilant might make people stare at you. I know when I'm super tired and caffeinated, I end up looking at people a bit too long and then I feel like people are staring at me. But it's a function of people reacting to what vibes i'm sending out, not a conspiracy.

I won't be surprised if we live in a police state in the near future. But I damn sure will be shocked if it turns out that they've been sending people to honk at you for no other reason than to annoy you.

Again, I'll just ask one last time. Is there anything that would make you question the elaborate conspiracy you've constructed to explain horns honking, people staring, and people gesturing? Like obviously confronting people wouldn't work because they wouldn't just admit it. And documenting it isn't possible because they'd either steal your camera, or it would only seem like innocuous horns honking, people staring, and people gesturing. And government officials denying that they're 'torturing' you also wouldn't work because of course they wouldn't admit. What evidence would ever convince you? Because Occam's Razor hasn't dissuaded you of anything so maybe falsifiability will.

Like MK Ultra people could have gotten drug tested and found they'd been dosed with LSD! Or found their names in government documents. And Stasi victims would be able to have friends and family be able to verify the circumstances they endured: putting trash back into the house, handymen losing things or screwing up. They might not know who did it, but they'd be able to discern things we going wrong because other people in their vicinity agreed with them.

Do people in your general vicinity agree with your assessment about the nefarious intent of the honks, and looks and gestures? Do you confide to anyone in your general vicinity about your suspicions? Or do you keep it to yourself or find solace in internet forums and the like?

Actually, I'm positive literally all of those things have occurred in my lifetime except for staring at a family member since I have no kids. Definitely had people use their high beams while I was driving. Definitely heard people talk about some random topic that I was looking into recently. My reaction isn't "OMG IT'S ALL DIRECTED AT ME". It's "Huh, that sucks" or "That was weird.". The idea that you think these are proof positive of some vast conspiracy says a lot about how you view the world. You view everything and everyone as tangential to your life. That just ain't so. And did it ever occur to you that the way you approach the world reflects back to you? Like you are suspicious of everyone, so maybe people see you sizing them up and find that weird so they react accordingly.

And I notice you've completely ignored the part where people sharing a delusion does not make it truth. Shared erroneous beliefs are now more common than ever because of the internet and persecutory delusions even more so. Mental health professionals struggle with this phenomenon because people have a delusion and find confirmation of it in online community where people gather.

What happened, as I understand what you've told me, is that a bunch of annoyances, which you perceived as being coordinated and targeted, made you believe in a conspiracy. So you decided to see if anyone on the good ole internet has ever had similar experiences. Sure enough, other people came to the same conclusion you did so you felt vindicated because otherwise, you'd have to reckon with a reality where you believed something that no one else did. So instead, people get to congregate online in these clusters of false belief and deny reality. It's very similar to the Mandela effect, where people are 100 percent sure that events happened a different way and that 'reality has shifted' because other people share their recollection.

You've also clearly dodged the fact that the 'evidence' you showed me had a clear motive and clear perpetrator. It was over a property dispute next door and it involved the fire chief. Whereas there is no clear motive for harassing you, and there is no clear perpetrator besides the government. Hence my extreme skepticism.

Is there legitimately anything that would shake your belief that you are the victim of a vast, subtle, unseen conspiracy? Or is it unfalsifiable?

Because if you could show me some proof that what you say is legitimate in your life and not historically, then I'd be swayed. But random videos of people honking the horn or looking at you are not proof.

There's a woman in Boston who believes she's a 'targeted individual' and she records tons of videos of her confronting her 'stalkers'. Name is Lena Kochman. And for her they seem to be proof of a vast conspiracy, but literally anyone else who views them sees it as her harassing random individuals.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lena+kochman

Look at some of her videos and tell me if any of those look like proof to you. I'm wondering if there's just a fundamental disconnect between what you and I see as proof.

I'm not trusting of my government really at all. They're not above using riot gear on people during protests or using extra judicial killings on foreign soil.

But the video you just linked to was a perfect example of what I'm saying to you. The guy you linked to, Rick Kurlich, pissed off the guy who owned a house next door who was the fire chief aka there is a clear reason why he was being targeted. And it was by the LOCAL government, not a shadowy organization targeting random people.

20/20 even did a piece on it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bVOfK5ZS3c

Also goes back to what I was saying that subtle annoyance 'gang stalking' is exclusively used against people for a reason and not arbitrarily. But I'm sure you disagree. Show me who specifically you've pissed off to get gang stalked and I'll buy it. But 'the government' because 'i'm a free thinker' doesn't quite cut it for me.

Why would so many people be experiencing the exact same delusion??? How do you think they identify symptoms of any disease? Because many people experience it.

Delusions are signified because there is no evidence regardless of if many people scattered about agree with you. Why do you think that it requires the internet to gather enough people to form a 'support group' for these people? Because people do not share these delusions in close proximity of one another. If you have tangible evidence of any of your allegations, besides saying it's happened before therefore it's definitely happening to me now, then it wouldn't be a delusion. It would be real. But all you've said is that other people say the same things, things tangentially related have happened in the past, therefore it is definitely occurring to me.

Have some humility that you might be wrong man. The chances of you being right are infinitesimal at best.

A strawman is thinking that I'd be for this if it was occurring. But it isn't because you have no proof of it. You have legitimately said that people sometimes dress up as people you know when you're driving. Show me proof of that and I'll be right along side you getting blasted with super secret soundwave technology.

And again, YA GOT ME. Totally a government toady and not someone who is worried about deranged individuals who could potentially hurt random people. No reply to the three people I talked about who committed public shootings? No witty retort for that?

So the logical leaps you've made so far.

Stasi techniques because they're innocuous and only meant to be very subtle. BUT they're done on important people so we have to switch to...

MK Ultra techniques because they were done mostly on prisoners and students but sometimes random individuals. BUT they were dosing people with LSD which is probably easy to tell if it's happening to you. So we have to move to....

Stasi techniques with MK Ultra participants theory which coincidentally means that LITERALLY ANYONE ON EARTH construe their various aggravations, failures and missteps on a vast government conspiracy. Forget your keys? Government broke in and moved them. Late for work? Government caused a bunch of people to create a traffic jam. There is no end. I should start using this in my own life.

You've educated me about the lengths to which people will justify their weird beliefs.

Honking horns? People pose as people you know while driving? Silent sound spread spectrum weaponry? Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

The police state is riot gear and stun guns and crowd control, not employing people to subtly fuck with you. How self-aggrandizing are you?

Like how long did it take before you came to this conclusion of a vast government conspiracy? Was it because of what you already read on the internet? Or did you google it and get involved with the community? Because Occam's razor says this would literally be the last thing anyone would ever conclude. Unless they had confirmation bias and a group to re-enforce their beliefs. Like the Mandela effect, or flat eartherism, or hollow earth, or lizard people and the list goes on and on.

Gavin Long, Myron May and Aaron Alexis. That legitimately took me 5 seconds of Googling but clearly you've never thought about the potential ramifications of your worldview.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article90330817.html

I see you are very very confident that these experiments were mostly random and that's why you are being targeted. Or is it because you perhaps sued the government at some point? That's usually the other go-to excuse for 'TI's'.

And obviously I went to CIA school! Why else would I care about conspiracy minded people who believe random groups around them are part of a devilish, possibly demonic, conspiracy to ruin their lives through seemingly innocuous things?

And just as an aside as to your debating skills, you went from 'Stasi techniques are used on me' to 'MK ULTRA techniques were used on me' when I said that Stasi techniques were used on important people. MK Ultra techniques weren't to rearrange your furniture or to have people look at you strangely or get groups of people to follow you, that was Stasi techniques, which were used against important people. What nefarious 'techniques' are used against you?

The people in MK Ultra were either prisoners, students being paid for studies or fellow CIA agents who dosed each other. But by all means, if you want to say that it was them dosing random people all the time willy nilly go for it.

YA GOT ME. I'M WITH THE GUBMINT. I KNOW ITS YOU JOHN SMITH AT 123 MAIN STREET APT 2B! Seriously dude, reassess your life decisions if your worldview is indistinguishable from paranoia.

And honestly, I care because there have been like 3 'targeted individuals' who have committed public shootings in the last 3 or 4 years. So it worries me when people nonchalantly say that OF COURSE they're being followed and harassed by random individuals on a nearly daily basis. But sure, if it helps your messiah complex, I can tell you all about whatever agency you think I work for. I'll tell some cars to stop near you when you go somewhere so you know that it's totally legit and not at all completely innocuous. Real nefarious stuff.

I'm not saying it's beyond the scope of being plausible. I'm saying it's beyond the scope of being plausible for literally anyone .

It's plausible for people who are important, not, and I'm trying to be kind here, a person with an inflated sense of worth and a victim complex.

My argument isn't that this doesn't happen. But that it isn't happening to average people . The reason it's important to disabuse you of the notion of 'gang stalking' is because it robs you of agency in your life. What is the incentive to change your surroundings or affect change in government or your community if you seriously belief that everyone in your immediate surroundings are all in a secret experiment to screw with you? It makes it easy to sit back and bitch about the government without actually doing anything. It paradoxically provides you with a safe future because the conspiracy is so vast and unassailable that the only option is to do nothing but endure. I hope you realize this.

I read all that and all I heard was "I'm special. Everything and everyone revolves around me. Anything bad that happens is because of a shadowy cabal of seemingly ordinary people like Postmen, lawyers, hobos, taxi drivers, etc. They all must be in on it for me to have these feelings of persecution."

The brain is the most powerful thing in the universe. It can make people believe they are being followed when they aren't. Or that people are talking to them when there isn't anyone there. That doesn't mean they're targeted by 'energy weapons' or a cabal of secret minions are out to get them.

I know this won't matter because you can't convince someone to not believe in a delusion, but just think about it for a second. Think of how important you'd have to be for there to be tens or hundreds of people paid to just subtly ruin your life. You'd have to be real goddamn important. You'd have to be leading a movement of thousands or be working for a government. Seeing articles online doesn't quite qualify as 'real goddamn important' in my book. But safe travels. I hope you find inner peace.

I would say the same thing because chances are, they aren't actually victims of anything other than mental illness.

They didn't chose random people or 'free thinkers'. They picked organizers and leaders and journalists and diplomats. If you aren't one of those people, then chances are there isn't a huge government conspiracy against you.

Reading a bunch of stuff on the internet doesn't make you special, although I'm sure a lot of people would disagree.

TI's or targeted individuals are exclusively paranoid schizophrenics. Use Occam's razor and try to think of how many assumptions and people would have to be involved for this conspiracy to exist without any evidence.

The very widely cited Stasi techniques were used in East Germany with a population of 16 million people and was purportedly used on up to 10,000 people in resistance movements. Russia has recently been accused of using the techniques on diplomats and journalists. Neither of those examples justify the belief that the government is coming after random citizens.

If you are a journalist, a whistleblower (aka not an internet researcher), or a diplomat, then you might have a case. But otherwise, it is highly probable that you are being paranoid and rationalizing your irrational fear of others by concocting a grand conspiracy involving people 'from ALL age ranges, races, ethnicities, professions, political/religious affiliations' who are also simultaneously likely drug traffickers, lowlifes, criminals and people at Whole Foods.

Just saying, if you find yourself feeling paranoid around people from literally ALL walks of life, maybe it's not them. It's you. And you should try and seek help before you do something drastic.

they are basically trying to quell the anti-pedo party before it starts

can confirm. I have been followed by pedophiles as well.

i dont see downvoats on either of u guys tbh. either way tho u earned upvoats imho especially ur dope response durruti, goodshit man

Agreed. Voat has really changed since Thanksgiving.

Thanks for mentioning this site. Seems better for networking than the FB ones. My family and I have been a target for a long time.

Hi! I created the following archive link(s) for this voat submission: