crashing_this_thread

Are you new to this? Just releasing it isn't as effective as building a little hype first.

Though of course, building hype over nothing is even worse.

Vindicator

@matheasysolutions : I am flairing this "Accuracy in Question" because Cernovich did not tweet anything about pedogate at all tonight. You may want to review your Twitter feed for the link I sent you, as well.

matheasysolutions

Yeah the tweet was about McMaster trying to start WW3 with fake intel. I got notified about your tweet, but I can't see it on Twitter anymore. I have noticed that tweets / replies get hidden by Twitter lately... #censorship

Vindicator

This was the link: https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1692116/8290885

Basically, it's a post linking to Cernovich saying he is being sued by Epstein, which was debunked by investigators here who dug into the legal documents and discovered Cernovich is actually helping Epstein's lawyer Derschowitz try to get the court records of Epstein's victim unsealed. Not in the thread is the fact that Derschowitz starred in the free speech documentary Cernovich just released, Silenced .

I don't know what kind of game Cernovich is playing, but the legal documents show he is a pedophile supporter. He filed a legal motion to expose a trafficking victim, and then claimed HE was Epstein's victim. Complete lie, verifiable in the legal documents. @RebelSkum and @JrSlimss have a great article about it on the Pizzagate.wiki page .

matheasysolutions

I've seen those posts and those are wrong. He is not suing anybody... He is trying to get court documents to see if their were names being named and not "expose" the victim. He also never said he was being sued either. The Epstein legal team sent a letter to "Quash" his request to obtain court documents yet redacted the entire letter, ie they don't want to tell him why because they likely have little legal reason not to.

In the documentary he mentions there there are many people in it that he doesn't like or agree with, I haven't seen it yet but I haven't seen anything to make me think negatively about him.

JrSlimss

The Epstein legal team sent a letter to "Quash" his request to obtain court documents yet redacted the entire letter, ie they don't want to tell him why because they likely have little legal reason not to.

Unfortunately, that isn't true. The Motion to Quash was not directed at Cernovich - it was directed at Virginia Giuffre (there are like a billion motions going on in that case). Even though the whole thing is redacted, you can tell by the attorneys it was sent to at the very bottom ("Certificate of Service"). It was not sent to Cernovich's attorney, it was sent to the attorneys representing Virginia Giuffre. Cernovich's attorney is Jay Marshall Wolman. Also, attorneys don't get sent a redacted letter - that's only what the public gets to see.

*Here's the motion (Document 657 in Case: 1:15-cv-07433-RWS) and note the attorneys served at the end: http://pizzagate.wiki/images/4/4d/Epstein_Motion_to_Quash.pdf

*Here's Cernovich's article which cites Document 657 in Case: 1:15-cv-07433-RWS: http://archive.is/1Vo9P

*Here's the docket for Case: 1:15-cv-07433-RWS which shows who Cernovich's attorney is (Jay Marshall Woolman who works with Marc Randazza): http://pizzagate.wiki/images/0/08/Giuffre_v._Maxwell_SDNY_CM_ECF.pdf

*Here's what Virginia Giuffre's attorneys filed in opposition to Cernovich's motion in Case: 1:15-cv-07433-RWS: http://pizzagate.wiki/images/7/72/Response_in_Opposition_to_Motion_to_Intervene_-_by_Mike_Cernovich.pdf

I don't know why Cernovich is lying here, but it is to say the least, disheartening. I always stand with the victim and if Giuffre's attorneys don't trust Cernovich in this instance, I'm intensely hesitant to do so either.

Reading his articles, he is lying in this one as well, because his motion in opposition to unseal was filed by attorneys at Boies, Schiller - they represent Giuffre, not Ghislaine Maxwell - the madam Cernovich refers to in the article: http://archive.is/f0Pn9#selection-251.0-271.40

Feel free to double check any of this by going on PACER, but these are the filed documents provided by the court.

matheasysolutions

hmmm thanks for the reply.

I'm trying to follow along but your comment is all over the place.

Cernovich presented the Motion to Quash on his article ( https://www.dangerandplay.com/2017/03/03/billionaire-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-files-secret-legal-papers-against-mike-cernovich/) ) which included a screenshot that was "directed" at Virginia Giuffre. I'm not sure what that means but it appears that Cernovich is not trying to mislead anyone. He basically said he was served these papers and those were it, which were redacted.

I'm confused as to which part he is "lying". From what you wrote above, I don't see anywhere that is deliberately "lying". To me all that I gather is that he said he was served the motion to quash and presented those papers, and was himself confused what that meant. I am confused as to what that means too and I don't see any "lying" here. I'm also confused as to your comment. What is he lying about? Are you saying he is just lying about receiving that letter because it was redacted and not "directed" to him? He says it was and presented it as is. He doesn't seem to be trying to hide anything about what is inside the letter, so I'm not understanding your point. Please clarify if you can.

JrSlimss

Look - I have a legal background so this stuff is admittedly easier for me to follow. But all you need to know, is his attorney's name - Jay Marshall Woolman (who does work for/with Marc Randazza - which is who Cernovich said his attorney was) does not appear in the Motion to Quash he is citing. Cernovich was not served papers by Epstein, Giuffre was. Also the filing against Cernovich's motion to unseal was by Virginia Giuffre's attorney - not Ghislaine Maxwell's - BIG DIFFERENCE!

matheasysolutions

hmmm this is pretty interesting (and confusing).

I've looked into this a bit more, and it appears that:

  • Cernovich wants to be granted "Intervenor" status to be able to release a single filing, which is the alleged child trafficker Maxwell's Motion of Summary which includes 700 pages of exhibits.
  • Cernovich doesn't want to see any other sealed documents nor the alleged child victim Giuffre's documents.
  • Cernovich believes since the lawsuit is a public proceeding that the case should never be sealed.
  • Maxwell and Giuffre don't want the courts to follow Cernovich's request.
  • Giuffre files a motion against Cernovich's request.
  • Cernovich includes a quote "The accused madame is shook!" when speaking about the Giuffre's motion.
  • Cernovich claims that Epstein handed him the Quash letter which is fully redacted
  • The letter doesn't mention Cernovich's lawyer.
  • Cernovich includes that letter in his article
  • Cernovich is himself confused about the letter

From this it appears that Cernovich wants to make a specific portion of the proceedings made public (Maxwell's Motion of Summary etc.), because he believes it is in the public interest (I agree with this too because I believe Epstein and his associates would be exposed even more). Maxwell and Giuffre don't want this made public, for obvious reasons. They are in a court proceedings and it is reasonable they want everything made private. Giuffre's lawyers argue that they don't want a possible one-sided portion of the proceedings to be released (i.e. Maxwell's Summary). They also attack Cernovich's character and associate him with Dershowitz because Dershowitz had previously also wanted to release documents from that proceeding but was rejected.

As for Cernovich "lying", the only thing that I find somewhat "deliberately" misleading was his one quote "The accused madame is shook!". I don't know what to make of it because on the one hand I agree that Maxwell is "shook" but the article was referencing Giuffre's filing.

Cernovich's claim that Epstein handed him the Quash letter is confusing, and confusing for Cernovich as well. The letter clearly doesn't say it was sent to Cernovich's lawyers but Cernovich does not try to hide this fact either. Thus all I have to gather from it is he claims Epstein gave him that letter, thus I can't call this "lying".

This whole case seems more about legal issues and less about Cernovich being a "pedophile supporter" as Vindicator stated. Personally I agree with Cernovich's pursuit of making the legal documents public, even despite Giuffre's lawyers opposing it. The public needs to know just how vast Epstein's crimes were and who were involved so I think Cernovich is doing a great service. He just needs to be more clear about some of the legal terms and issues he brings up.

JrSlimss

As for Cernovich "lying", the only thing that I find somewhat "deliberately" misleading was his one quote "The accused madame is shook!". I don't know what to make of it because on the one hand I agree that Maxwell is "shook" but the article was referencing Giuffre's filing.

Ok, so you got this part. Next...

Cernovich claims that Epstein handed him the Quash letter which is fully redacted

This is incorrect. Cernovich claims Epstein "served" him. http://archive.is/1Vo9P#selection-209.64-209.70

That is a term of art and has a very specific legal definition. If he was "served," his attorney would have been listed on the Certificate of Service. He also would not have been served a redacted motion because then he would not have a chance to argue it. You'll note that if you read Marc Randazza's quote very carefully, it never says that Cernovich was served the Epstein motion either - Randazza is just arguing that they want to see more details of the case.

I would be tempted to say Cernovich was "confused," but he himself went to law school (granted it was Pepperdine). As the Giuffre motion against him states - Cernovich was inspired to go to law school by Dershowitz.

Just read the motion from Giuffre against the unsealing. That told me all I needed to know. And if you want to know how truly big of a piece of shit Dershowitz is, read Trafficking by Conchita Sarnoff about the Epstein cases. In particular, you'll notice Dershowitz hired PI's to intimidate witnesses and prosecutors on the case. According to Giuffre, the document Dershowitz and Cernovich wanted here would dox the witness list and then they'd be able to intimidate these new witnesses as well.

matheasysolutions

Hmmm yup this case is more confusing.

Regardless of whether he was "served" or "handed" the Quash letter, the letter is freely available on his site for all to see. There doesn't seem to be any malintent on the part of Cernovich. The only issue he may have is that his article, if not legally accurate, could hurt his chances of having the courts rule in his favor.

From the Giuffre motion, you get the expected arguments that one would make if they want privacy of their court documents. Yes they argue that the privacy and possible intimidation may occur if the documents are made public. Cernovich argues that the proceedings should never have been made public. Who the court sides with is up to legal interpretation. Personally, I would want documents that reveal the extent of Epstein's crimes and connections to be exposed because I believe more good could come of it.

I haven't looked in Dershowitz's background, but yes Giuffre argues Cernovich's connection to him as more reason for the court to rule against unsealing. Again, this is up to the court's interpretation, and I rather not dive into it at the moment.

Whether the courts favor for or against Cernovich, I don't think he is deliberately "lying" which would only hurt his chances of getting the courts approval.

JrSlimss

Last response on this. I know your reputation for being a good researcher, so I feel like this convo is worth the time.

Cernovich was not requesting for everything to be unsealed in the case - only a specific document that matches the one Dershowitz also requested previously. As for Cernovich's motion, I believe the court already rejected it because of Giuffre's response in opposition.

Also the court doesn't know he's lying - Cernovich is primarily just lying to his readers. There's nothing illegal about that (it wouldn't even be a strong case of defamation if claimed by Epstein or Maxwell).

Believe me, I've been following the Epstein case before the term "pizzagate" even existed. I really want to know the facts - I've even considered reaching out to Giuffre's attorneys to see if I could help in some way. That said, I don't want to know the facts so badly if puts victims in jeopardy for a second time.

matheasysolutions

Thanks for the response and info!

This case is very confusing, especially with Cernovich's very unclear articles, and commentators rushing to label him a "shill" or "pedo supporter" without having all the information. I'm not sure why Cernovich would "lie" to his audience while attaching the documents that can easily be verified by people like you that those documents could not be as he stated.

This reminds me of when Cernovich gave credit to a Twitter user for decoding the Wikileaks Vault 7 pre-release tweet when it was actually ME that first decoded haha (he also was wrong about the monument in the decoded image). I bring this up in my video: https://youtu.be/X5a7dAoBu40?t=9m32s

Cernovich could have easily double-checked his Vault 7 claims, but I attribute him to being lazy and not lying. These are different cases, but as someone that tends to over-analyze and research topics, I try to be very careful before negatively labeling someone. Anyways great discussion with you as I've learned a lot about the Law biz!

matheasysolutions

Also if the courts feel unsealing documents would "expose" someone they can easily redact any personal information. We can learn a great deal about the Epstein case by these court documents being unsealed so I think Cernovich is doing a great service. Don't know how this makes him a "pedo supporter". In one of his podcasts he also brings up how people on voat where completely off about his "lawsuit". We should be very careful in throwing people under the bus especially those that may be helping us out...

SayWhatNOWAY

Political News @CarlBullock16 21s BREAKING REPORT – Petraeus Working Behind the Scenes With McMaster to Put Troops on the Ground in Syria thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/breaki… pic.twitter.com/S9guNKpV8e

SayWhatNOWAY

Trump never just listens to one person when getting updates ect. Mattis would of known if info from others was BS! Trump hit Syria, cuz we was only ones that could and would make it impossible for any more gas attacks. This Mike guy gave out way too much info when he broke the Rice story, about having his "IT" people in all media outlets to get info for him. I think someone is feeding him BS to find out who leak the BS to him! Mike better check and double check his sources!

SayWhatNOWAY

Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 @Cernovich 12m McMaster Plan for 150,000 American Troops in Syria youtube.com/watch?v=w0RQ8x… View details ·
Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 retweeted Shauna Shauna @ShaunaGee 42m US and global policies are not dictated by US Presidents or Congress or the people. When you accept this, everything starts to make sense. View details ·
Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 @Cernovich 16m I started a live stream on @YouTube : youtu.be/w0RQ8xe6neE?a View details ·
Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 @Cernovich 17m McMaster plan for 150,000 ground troops in Syria revealed pscp.tv/w/a7hhlzE0MDc0… View details ·
Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 @Cernovich 32m I just published “H. R. McMaster Manipulating Intelligence Reports to Trump, Wants 150,000 Ground Soldiers in Syria” medium.com/p/h-r-mcmaster…

Andalusian1

nothing to do with pedos, move along

fartyshorts

It's about "H. R. McMaster Manipulating Intelligence Reports to Trump, Wants 150,000 Ground Soldiers in Syria”.

And the viewership of Cernovich is what I meant. Bumping his own numbers.

HillBoulder

He's creating buzz with his new surge in popularity and credibility I wouldn't get your hopes up for anything that actually helps

jewburger19

agreed this is bullshit. Makes no sense to have this idiotic lead in. If you have info post it, if not, stfu.

fartyshorts

He always does this to crank up the viewership. It also clearly works; I'm making coffee and waiting patiently right now. Would've missed if he just threw it out there.

fartyshorts

He says it's about "national security". https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/850919539151745024

V____Z

Fwiw, he's posting it here an hour from now, 10 pacific per his latest tweet https://medium.com/@Cernovich

Catchthem

I do hope he has something.. First see. I remember AJ announcing the biggest news about Pizzagate ever. Now we all know how that ended up. But lets be possitive, show us what you've got.

derram

https://tweetsave.com/cernovich/status/850907755879604224 :

Mike Cernovich 🇺🇸 on Twitter: "Susan Rice was a small story. I broke that for one reason - to prove my much bigger story is true. Stay tuned. Tonight I'm breaking it."

This has been an automated message.

Omnicopy

Thanks bot!

Andalusian1

ITS ALREADY TONIGHT

TimesUp

He just tweeted it will post at 10 pm Pacific time..

Andalusian1

sooo... in like 30 minutes?

TimesUp

Yes - at this moment it's 9:25 Pacific.

Andalusian1

I'll be waiting