This_Ruined_Pizza

Trump won't. He has no intention of going after Hillary.

party1981

I think the odds of Trump releasing the emails are less than 5%.

As FBIanon said, they would take down the entire government. The truth of JFK, pizzagate, 9/11, and the Apollo missions, by themselves, would be enough for a French Revolution with blood running down the streets.

Trump is not an idiot. And he probably cares about himself and his legacy, a little more than he cares about the truth and American patriots. It's also clear that he got a helping hand from U.S. intelligence in the election. He's fired every major player that the media hates (Bannon) or who talks about pizzagate (Flynn). He hasn't said a word about the new University of Alaska study on building 7, or the release of JFK records scheduled for October (likely burned at time of Boston marathon bombing). He filled the Treasury Department with Wall St./Goldman Sachs guys - the ones who created and manage the CIA). He can't even keep his simplest campaign promises on DACA (told Congress to codify it in law), the border wall, or retreating from Afghanistan.

The best thing he has done is end the CIA Syrian war operation. But we don't know how much he really ended it (or just said he did), or what he negotiated with Israel to do that.

He has his hands tied in lots of ways (including perhaps blackmail on Ivanka through Mossad/Kushner, taking money from Soros, and his earlier life with Roy Cohn who engaged in sex blackmail operations).

Of course, I would never say never. I get the sense that the deep state is having a harder, and harder time, keeping its entire bag of secrets under wraps. The secrets are too big, the internet crowdsource community is too powerful. That's why you have limited hangouts like Pieczinik and Robert David Steele openly admitting both 9/11 and pizzagate, as if they expect them to drop in the MSM any day.

And, of course, if the goal of the elites is to cause chaos, war, and division (classic Rothschilds divide and conquer), revealing the truth about 9/11 or pizzagate would be the easiest and fastest way to do it. The Ukranian revolution would look like a joke compared to the French Revolution 2.0, this time on U.S. soil.

Godwillwin

Maybe his and our hands are tied until the pedophike elite are FULLY exposed for who and what they really are. It may be impossible to get the wall, tax reform, etc etc etc until these demons are exposed. They are obviously still running things. I don't really care if Hillary goes to jail. I want the children saved more than anything. But I'm starting to think that if they don't all go to jail, the children won't ever he saved and half of the country will continue to be brainwashed by their "newspeak" brainwashing media

Godwillwin

I'm hoping that if he's having to make deals and pick and choose what he can get done, that SOMEHOW he gets SOMETHING out there that blows pizzagate wide open. Maybe he's appeasing them now to buy time then bamn he lets it loose. Maybe it's a timing issue??

I'm hoping #awangate is that something that EVENTUALLY will lead to the "BAMN" & the truth will be known by ALL.

EyeOfHorus

Trump and Soros were business partners.

SoSpricyHotDog

The root article, here: http://nypost.com/2017/09/04/proof-that-investigating-trump-is-starting-to-backfire-for-democrats/

@GumShoe ... nice work my friend!

So... the NYPost article cites a source that has "been very reliable."

I’ve also mentioned that Comey fibbed when he said his agents unanimously agreed that prosecution was unnecessary. In fact, my source says that FBI agents were irate about the decision not to go after Clinton.

But as I’ve said before, any investigation of Trump was likely to backfire when investigators started to look at the Democrats and their dealings.

Interesting! But, c'mon! Another "very reliable" source and no specifics. Don't dox him. But, give us something. Some nugget to verify. This is how Pizzagate began... extremely rapid-fire information across multiple sources. Then a wave of connect-the-dots, with "blips" of Anon activity that seemed to be at least very well educated. Adding more breadcrumbs to our many trails.

Now?

We're left open-handed to the God of Leaks ... reading articles like this. If accurate, great! I think Comey needs to make a visit back to DC... but, give us more. @JohnCrudele @NYPost Your source must know something else that wouldn't identify them, but allows for a deeper connection.

I think we need to look for a smoking gun that ties Awan's spy ring into the entire Pizza-network. Comey's cover-up, Russian hacking stories for 10 months, Clinton, Lynch, Podesta, Seth Rich, the DNC, Schultz, Congress Blackberries all the way to Awan. Essentially the reverse direction George Webb is (very amazingly) going.

Hmmmm... The jump from Rao to Alefantis may* involve art/shipping containers... perhaps Pegasus Museum was* for art? Perhaps George Webb's theory on the Navy Yard & Awan & Shipping containers was how the "museum" received/sent the artwork?

Like Arun Rao was caught liking the photo's on Alefantis' instagram. And instagram photo's from other suspicious accounts such as WeThePizza (the name of comet ping pongs website) and others which had disturbing photo's as well. Plus Voat has made plenty of recent discoveries for pizzagate that are well researched and based in reality. For instance the post about the Art for Embassies that the admins of reddit will not allow to exist on this site. That's usually a big indicator of some truth being involved. I mean, with all the conspiracy theories why did Pizzagate have to appear in the mainstream and need to be debunked? Why probably because Alefantis is involved in this Art for embassies program. Art is used widely to launder money, and the fact that this program can transport world wide and skip all customs and official inspections is suspect in its own right.

Long shot?

Yeah.

TimberWolfAlpha

I mean, thats creepy. not surprising but creepy.

carmencita

Ha Ha Ha. This should surprise no one. It's Howdy Doody Time.,,,,,,,.

SecondAmendment

carmencita

PS....A couple years ago I would have loved hearing that.....now they just make me sick.

SecondAmendment

Oh, shoot, me too, @carmencita ! That's been the most tragic part of this for me, personally. But my loss is nothing, in light of what others have suffered at the hands of these monsters. The loss of my childhood memories is a minor loss, for sure, compared to what the victims and their loved ones have lost.

But in light of how far reaching this is, and how long this pernicious cruelty has had a hold of our civilization, it is quite probable that every entertainer thrust onto our TVs and radios is a mere chess piece in this sick game. I watch almost nothing anymore. Almost.

I don't know about you, but I don't look at anything the same since I took my red pill last November. A couple of weeks ago I stopped at a rest area. Actually, it was a plaza with the gas station and little store. Outside of the restrooms there were two little girls just standing there by themselves. They appeared to possibly be sisters. I stopped in my tracks because I noticed those two kids just biding their time, all alone and vulnerable. They were so cute and innocent. So, rather than proceed where I was going I decided to wait until the parent came back for them. I waited across the hallway from them. They did not even know I was waiting for their parent to come out of whatever bathroom the parent was in. But those kids were so vulnerable . I didn't say a word to anybody. I did not make a big deal of it. I should have. Eventually the father came out of the restroom and said, "Come on girls let's go." As he walked by me I said, "Excuse me. I just want to let you know I stopped to keep an eye on your kids. I was very worried for them being out there alone in the hallway." He thanked me. But still, I thought, "what a dumbass. The Podesta brothers would have loved those two kids." That's the way I think these days. Everyone's vulnerable. It is so sad.

I sometimes worry about even the kids who appear on America's Got Talent. That show used to be one of my family's favorites. We loved it because it was upbeat and positive and hopeful. Now when I look at the child performers I realize that they are just sitting ducks for the predators who run the entertainment and music industries. Those scummy producers and Moguls are probably salivating as they see the new fresh meat trying to make it in the entertainment industry. It is revolting to me.

Sorry for the digression into an unrelated topic. But this thread reminds me of the recent Justin Bieber stuff in the news. Apparently he not only has had an up close, personal view of this stuff. But, apparently, he has taken a stand against it. I have seen several videos in which it is reported that Bieber refused to sacrifice a child and abruptly cancelled his tour shortly thereafter discussing that in a church group. Surprisingly, there are still plenty of videos on YouTube that referred to this breakthrough on Bieber's part.

God bless Bieber and all the victims of this depravity. I really, really wish the best for all of you citizen investigators and I wish this ship would finally see the light of day and be exposed in its entirety.

Thanks for letting me riff. I've had a long week....

carmencita

I feel about the same way. Whenever we go out on the weekend in stores shopping it makes me crazy seeing parents with their little kids walking way ahead or behind. What are these people thinking? Who taught these parents to be so lax? I want to run up to them and scream....Do you not realize all the missing children? Do you not realize your kids could be grabbed? A whole generation is walking in a fog. About Bieber. I believe his parents sold him off. They were really screwy. I used to watch him on the David Letterman show. Dave gave him a lot of exposure, trying to help him out. But once there was a problem, and Dave heard about some of the strange things Justin was starting to do. Dave made some remark about how Bieber was changed or different and I never saw him on the show again. I hope he gets straightened out before we lose another one. Thanks for your thoughts.

carmencita

Yeah, any idiots that fell for anything Comey said or did are exactly that. Idiots. What a joke.

kidavenger

Comey is such a crappy actor, too. (Almost as bad as Hill and Bill). I had to stop watching any hearings that he was a part of because I swore if I saw that man say "Lordy" one more time I was going to throw my TV and/or computer out the window. It wouldn't have taken the body language lady to figure out he was lying through his teeth while under oath.

carmencita

That whole family imo, is a very sick bunch. To this day I am convinced his parents sold those two brothers off. There were too many unanswered questions when that house invasion took place. Sick people and then they pass it down. On and On and On it goes. So sad.

Are_we__sure

Hillary has zero ties to Silsby. The truth is there is zero evidence Hillary or anyone else in Washington, DC knew who Laura Silsby was before she got arrested.

As for this thing. This is not a "paper" making these claims. It's an opinion columnist. So this is not from a reporter.

This reporter gets several things wrong.

Clinton, you probably remember, “lost” her private emails, which she’d been storing on a personal computer server.

Clinton has never said she lost her emails. She asked her lawyer to separate her old personal emails from her old work emails. The work emails were turned over to State and she asked for the others to be deleted.

Clinton’s emails, which were stolen by the Russians, have never been found.

Stolen by the Russians? What? This would be his big attention getting story if he could prove this.

the messages are still in the possession of the National Security Agency (NSA), which offered to give them to the FBI.

Both the getting and the giving would be illegal acts. This did not happen. This guy is completely wrong.

The NSA does not capture the contents of American emails. They capture and store metadata: From, To, Date/time sent. But it's illegal to access this metadata without a FISA court order--the capture this metadata, but are not allowed to do anything with it until they can prove a connection to a terrorism case.

I’ve also mentioned that Comey fibbed when he said his agents unanimously agreed that prosecution was unnecessary. In fact, my source says that FBI agents were irate about the decision not to go after Clinton.

This appears to be conflating a couple of things. It's the FBI agents who worked on the Clinton case who were unanimous. Other agents might have been pissed, but they have no special information about the case.

Jem777

AreweSure. I am pretty damn sure you are not just a citizen investigator as I have pointed out many times. You give yourself away. At least use bad grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. to throw people off the scent a little...good god.

You of course you must realize this "journalist" you smeared as not a journalist in True Pundit is actually a former FBI Agent. You must know this right? His sources aren't just sources they are the real deal.

The Laura Silsby arguement is old dude. You have already lost. Even if she (HRC) did not know Silsby (which she does) the nightmare of Haiti and everything else is damning enough.

BTW I agree about the NSA needing a FISA warrant. I also agree you can't unmask American citizens or use surveillance on them in violation of the constitution. Have you heard of Dennis Montgomery or Bill Binney? Ask James Comey about him he knows him I believe......apparently since that whole immunity as an NSA whistleblower deal went down after Snowden.

Are_we__sure

. At least use bad grammar, punctuation, spelling, etc. to throw people off the scent a little...good god.

I'm glad you noticed. I edit my posts if I see bad grammer or typos.....(I just mispelled grammar and misspelled.....but I'll leave those ones in.) I like good writing and appreciate those who take the time.

But I am just a citizen. Slacking off at my regular job. I spent a little time on voat today and a lot more time on ebay looking for a cheap Telecaster guitar. Almost had one for $65 today.

Which journalist are you talking about? The Gateway Pundit points to a column in the New York Post. This one: http://nypost.com/2017/09/04/proof-that-investigating-trump-is-starting-to-backfire-for-democrats/

I said he was an opinion columnist and not a reporter. And this is significant because when he says the NSA has these emails, he is not reporting that as fact, he's given his opinion and the editing rules are different for opinion columnists and straight reporters.

The Laura Silsby arguement is old dude. You have already lost.

Of course, I haven't lost on this, I'm perfectly correct on this. Whether or not I'll convince people that they were lied to by this guy is another story, but the evidence is amazingly clear this guy was wrong. So wrong, I believe he knew he was lying.

William Craddick @williamcraddick Investigative journalist, discoverer of the Clinton-Silsby trafficking scandal, Founder and Editor in Chief at Disobedient Media

There's basically no way to read this document and not understand it was written after the Haitian Earthquake of 2010. This dude is a hoaxer. https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/3776

I also agree you can't unmask American citizens or use surveillance on them in violation of the constitution.

This didn't happen whatsoever and Trump's Justice Department just had to admit he was lying about that.

DOJ: No evidence Trump Tower was wiretapped The Department of Justice said in a court filing Friday it has no evidence that former President Obama ordered the wiretapping of Trump Tower, despite President Trump’s assertions. The statement was made in a Friday court filing related to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by American Oversight, a liberal watchdog organization founded by former Obama administration officials. “Both the FBI and NSD confirm that they have no records related to wiretaps as described the March 4, 2017 tweets,” the DOJ wrote in the court filing, obtained by Fox News.

and the Susan Rice unmasking fell apart months ago.

I do know Bill Binney and he's often incorrect, but he is not a straight out con-man like Dennis Montgomery. Those two dudes are world's apart. You insult Binney by including Montgomery with him.

Jem777

You are not just a citizen give everyone a break. And again this columnist is as I stated a former FBI agent and you know it.

If you know Binney then you know why he resigned. Binney has made numerous appeal stating NSA has the documents and calling the blame Russia game a joke even authoring a lenghthy Intel report documenting how it was an obvious inside leak and the FBI and NSA knew this and lied.

The DOJ did not come out and admit anything about unmasking. Read the fine print of who sued for the records and what was stated exactly.....be careful with your words because they will be put on blast. Who funds "American Oversight" and what was said?

Ask Devin Nunes if Montgomery is a con since he has had at least two additional NSA step forward.

Are_we__sure

You are not just a citizen give everyone a break.

Well I'm a smart dude interested in politics and I have writing experience, so i'm not the average citizen. If you think I have connections to to government or any political groups. I do not. Y'all are just so paranoid and so within your own circle that I seem suspect.

And again this columnist is as I stated a former FBI agent and you know it.

Are you talking about something previously? Because I didn't talk about True Pundit today. The guy I mentioned was from the NY Post. Now that I think about it, do we know who writes TruePundit, because they don't have bylines do they?

Binney has made numerous appeal stating NSA has the documents and calling the blame Russia game a joke even authoring a lenghthy Intel report documenting how it was an obvious inside leak and the FBI and NSA knew this and lied.

The VIPS Letter was not an intel report, it was an open letter. And VIPS relied on outside technical help, Binney is not qualified to do the forensics as it's not his specialty.

The Nation has more on the VIPS letter https://www.thenation.com/article/a-leak-or-a-hack-a-forum-on-the-vips-memo/

Several folks from VIPS refused to sign that letter. One of the reasons was there's no proof that the data timing there were analyzing happened on the DNC servers. It's a giant flaw that forensic folks pointed out immediately when this first came out.

It is important to note that it’s equally plausible that the cited July 5, 2016, event was carried out on a server separate from the DNC or elsewhere, and with data previously copied, transferred, or even exfiltrated from the DNC.

.....if the data was not on the DNC server on July 5, 2016, then none of this VIPS analysis matters (including the categorically stated fact that the local copy was acquired by an insider) and simply undermines the credibility of any and all analysis in the VIPS memo when joined with this flawed predicate.

The DOJ did not come out and admit anything about unmasking. Read the fine print of who sued for the records and what was stated exactly........

Do you think the DOJ would have given different facts if they were sued by somebody else? This is ludicrous.

They didn't have to say anything about unmasking Devin Nunes story fell apart months ago.

Susan Rice Did Nothing Wrong, Say Both Dems and Republicans A review of the surveillance material flagged by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes shows no inappropriate action by Susan Rice or any other Obama administration official, Republican and Democratic Congressional aides who have been briefed on the matter told NBC News. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/susan-rice-did-nothing-wrong-say-both-dems-republicans-n747406

Top Republican: Controversy surrounding Susan Rice unmasking was 'created' by Devin Nunes The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee said Friday that the controversy surrounding whether former National Security Adviser Susan Rice politicized intelligence about President Donald Trump and his associates "was all created" by House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes. http://www.businessinsider.com/burr-says-questions-about-susan-rice-unmasking-created-by-devin-nunes-2017-7

which bring us to this

Ask Devin Nunes if Montgomery is a con

Oh my god. That's a good one.

new4now

If you have writing experience and are smart, why do you edit your posts? As a person with writing skills and smarts, one would think you would proofread before posting. As for the rest, your BS at the start puts me off to look into it.

Are_we__sure

If you have writing experience and are smart, why do you edit your posts? As a person with writing skills and smarts, one would think you would proofread before posting.

Different strokes for Different Folks?

Jem777

You quoting NBC news or even Democrats and Republicans is the joke....you are taking a stand for the most incompetent, corrupt group of people. Not all but many and some are involved in child sex trafficking. Your continued excuses for them is laughable.

RweSure

Hi, with all due respect, you cited Dennis Montgomery as a source and then to back it up you cited Devin Nunes. And you don't even understand how funny this is.

You have no evidence of anyone in this thread being involved in child sex trafficking and you know it.

10401614?

Switching from one heavily-used-and-downvoted shill account to another heavily-used-and-downvoted shill account does not make your argument any more valid (especially when you don't even bother changing the name that much between the two accounts).

RweSure

(especially when you don't even bother changing the name that much between the two accounts).

Why do you think I did that, Einstein?

Jem777

With all due respect you switched to RweSure from AreWeSure because you somehow think no one is catching on.

Your statement "no one in this thread is involved in child sex trafficking"

I again say you are not fooling anyone. Does HRC or Laura Silsby ring a bell.

With all due respect I know you miss DarkMath but I am not him. See ya

RweSure

With all due respect you switched to RweSure from AreWeSure because you somehow think no one is catching on.

No, I switched because I was not able to continue the conversation under RweSure. That's why my accounts are transparently the same person.

HRC is not involved in child trafficking. There's zero evidence of that. You do have me on Silsby, but again, HRC didn't know this woman before she went to Haiti and got arrested. Clinton only got involved because she was an American arrested overseas and that is the one of the duties of the State Department as I pointed out many, many times. https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/emergencies/arrest.html

One of the highest priorities of the Department of State and U.S. embassies and consulates abroad is to provide assistance to U.S. citizens incarcerated abroad. The Department of State is committed to ensuring fair and humane treatment for U.S. citizens imprisoned overseas. We stand ready to assist incarcerated citizens and their families within the limits of our authority in accordance with international law, domestic and foreign law.

10401625?

With all due respect, the cuck running the "Are We Sure" accounts doesn't deserve even a single ounce of respect.

Jem777

Trump has stated this openly and tweeted it. There is more than 30,000 missing. Everyone knows the NSA has them that is why it is such a joke. The NSA, the CIA, the FBI, Obama, HRC and most of Silicon Valley knows they have them. In fact if it was Joe Blow citizen they would not only have been reading them in real time you would be in federal prison.

The very fact that the rest of her underlings went to the level of bleach bit indicates how little guys like Combetta know about NSA.

That was all a show...Comey knew damn well where to get them.

Are_we__sure

Trump has stated this openly and tweeted it.

Why would you trust what Trump says about anything? He's just not a credible source

There is more than 30,000 missing.

There is not.

The State Department or the FBI or Judicial Watch are not entitled to Hillary's personal emails. Only work emails were required to be turned over to comply with the Federal Records Act. Some of the emails Clinton turned in were sent back to her, because they weren't considered federal records. She asked her lawyers to separate the emails out and they did so, but running series of searches. When the FBI got her server they recovered 15,000 of the deleted emails and a judge asked the State Department to review them. Some of the deleted emails were work related, but it's unclear if the FBI ever gave a number. These were considered as part of the original FBI investigation, (the FBI recovered emails as early as 2015.)

VaginalCanal

You're a fucking idiot. It is well documented that she deleted over 30k emails. You question the integrity of our president but not the person so incompetent that she used a private server to send classified information (which she denied). Then you trust her to pick and choose which emails contained classified information? The very idea that you would support a criminal, who denied their criminal activity, deciding which information is handed over knowing that if she actually turns over evidence, she would be incriminating herself is fucking retarded.

We all know your a shill and I respect you for your honesty as well as your tenacity but at some point you have to come back to reality. The woman committed a fucking crime that many are sitting in jail for. In fact, many are in jail for less. This is why Trump was elected. Americans (legal Americans) are over the politics and over the special treatment afforded to politicians. Drain the swamp isn't a moto, it's a fucking expectation.

RweSure

You're a fucking idiot.

Says the person who has the facts wrong.

It is well documented that she deleted over 30k emails.

And I'll repeat myself: "The State Department or the FBI or Judicial Watch are not entitled to Hillary's personal emails. Only work emails were required to be turned over to comply with the Federal Records Act." Of the emails that were deleted another 15-17K WERE REVIEWED BY THE FBI.

so incompetent that she used a private server to send classified information (which she denied). Then you trust her to pick and choose which emails contained classified information?

This proves you are wholly ignorant of the issues at hand:

Issue 1

She would have had the exact same Federal Records Act issues if she used her @state .gov email address instead of a personal server because at the time she served her emails would not have been automatically archived because the software used at State was incompatible with a federal archive.

Issue 2

She would have had the exact same classified info issues if she used her @state .gov email address instead of a personal server because both were nonsecure systems

If you were not ignorant of the issues, your sentence would have read Then you trust her to pick and choose which emails were work-related and which were personal?

The very idea that you would support a criminal, who denied their criminal activity,

Nope.

The woman committed a fucking crime that many are sitting in jail for.

Absolutely nope.
This was a talking point among Clinton haters for months and months, but it was completely false. For one, thing no classified documents passed through her email server. Second, for the emails that had classified info this often originated with career diplomats and other officials. Dozens of other people would have been guilty of the same crimes as her if she was in fact guilty, not all of them at the State Department. The issue was not like in Petraeus case willful evasion of the rules. There would be no expectation that she was being sent classified info on that email address (the expectation would be the same on a @state .gov email) because there was a completely separate secure system called SIPRNET for recieving actual classified documents. You can't email from SIPRNET to state.gov or or any other email on the regular internet. The issue was not mishandling classified documents, it was classified info slipping into regular emails. This is a problem common in the State Department and other agencies. In fact, the State Department has had a long, long battle with other intel agencies about what is properly classified since

A, they deal with open source intelligence like newspapers and other sources (there have been times when what the DIA considered Top Secret signals intelligence was known to folks in the State Department not through signals intelligence but other means like reading public reports or going to a public conference.

B. they have to talk to the public and other governments about these issues. Overclassification is a problem everyone admits goes on, but nothing changes

C. Some things even if publically known are inherently classifed. Sending an email like "Hey did you see this article in the New York Times yesterday?" would be classified at the very top level, if it dealt with a drone strike in Pakistan even though the article was public. Tweets from Wikileaks could be Top Secret.

In fact, the very most secret emails on the Clinton server were classified as TOP SECRET TSI/SAP. But they didn't jeopardize our security. They were vague emails about drone strikes. They were from diplomats and CIA folks who knew they were talking on the unsecure system, so the emails were very vague, and didn't mention drones or cia or Pakistan or any names or places. That is they were from people who sincerely believed they were complying with the classification rules. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/emails-about-drone-strikes-are-at-center-of-hillary-clinton-investigation-2016-06-09

For years State has argued with other agencies about what should be considered classified. State lost that battle, the new inspector general disagreed and ruled with the Intel folks, but there was a genuine and longstanding debate over classification that predated Clinton at State. It was not a cut and dry issue. One of the most famous emails involved public talking points sent through the classified system. There was no simple way to separate the unclassified paragraphs from the classified paragraphs. How not cut and dry were these decisions? Before they checked Clinton's emails, they ran a sample looking for ones with classified info. They came up with 4 emails. Later when the whole thing was said and done, they admitted that they made mistakes on 3 of these emails.

The truth as Comey said was no one was ever prosecuted for what Clinton did and it would have been a double standard against her to prosecute her. This is why the Comey memo before the interviews were completed is going to be a nothingburger. It's common for prosecutor/judges to write up a first draft and get their thoughts on paper before every bit of evidence is considered. It's not a judgement, it's a draft and it can easily change if new info comes in, but by the time Comey put his thoughts on paper, the FBI had the facts and nobody was getting charged unless they lied in their interviews. You can have conduct that violates policy, but is now illegal.

Drain the swamp isn't a moto, it's a fucking expectation.

Well, you've been suckered.

VaginalCanal

Who has the facts wrong?

The crime is that she used a personal server. Thats it. Nothing else matters. Had she used her .gov email, she wouldn't have violated the law. Unfortunately, she didn't comply with the law and used a personal server to send classified information thus committing a crime.

The fact that she committed a crime and then lied about the crime is what completely disqualifies her and her staff from being qualified to determine what is handed over to authorities or not. That would be no different than a suspected murderer being allowed to choose which guns they hand over to the investigating authorities.

This situation is her own fault. Maybe the "lost" emails contained nothing of importance and maybe they did. Due to the cronyism and corruption of the DNC, the DOJ and the FBI, we may never know. Fortunately, I think we will find out soon enough and off we are wrong, I'll own up to it but I wouldn't hooks my breath.

Edit: It is indeed a fact that she passed confidential emails through her private server. She even admits classified emails were handled on her server.

Edit 2: Coney testified to all this. He even says that he didn't proceed with charges because she didn't intend to violate the law thus confirming that she did, indeed, break the law.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fbi-director-james-comey-hillary-clinton-email-probe/story?id=41044927

RweSure

The crime is that she used a personal server.

Again. This is a "fact" you have wrong. This was not a crime. It was against department policy, it was not a crime. In fact, the State Department rules back then explicity discussed what you needed to do if you used personal email for work. The FBI was looking into criminal mishandling of classified info.

Had she used her .gov email, she wouldn't have violated the law. Unfortunately, she didn't comply with the law and used a personal server to send classified information thus committing a crime.

You're jumbling up the issues here and getting some parts wrong. You are not permitted to send classified information over a .gov email. The rules for classified info apply the same way to @state .gov emails AND to @clintonemail .com emails. Both of these are nonsecure systems. The folks who originated these email threads with the classified info used State, DOD, CIA, NSC and White House accounts that were not part of the secure system, SIPRNET. Thus they were all as culpable as Clinton was on her @clintonemail .com account.

Not all mishandling of classified info rises to the level of a crime. You don't seem to understand that. That was Comey's whole point.

The fact that she committed a crime and then lied about the crime is what completely disqualifies her and her staff from being qualified to determine what is handed over to authorities or not. That would be no different than a suspected murderer being allowed to choose which guns they hand over to the investigating authorities.

Now you are taking your original mistake and taking leaps and bounds away from it into speculation and opinion. The FBI said she did not lie in her interviews with them. Your murder analogy is ridiculous.

There's a difference between a classified document and an email that contains classified info. The first instance is very clear cut. Classified documents have to come with a classification header and every paragraph has to be marked to explain at what level of classification that paragraph is It looks like this https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cc84b6f5fd01ceed1e9d255ea6f6f018

The second case of classified info blended into an email is not so clear cut. And if it is the case, the burden falls more on the creator of the email than the receiver. For example, if you send me an unclassified email that says Iran has nuclear facility at Fordow, this could be classified or unclassified information depending on how you learned it. It might be public knowledge that Iran has a nuclear facility at Fordow, but the fact that centifuges became active there in February might be classified. But if you are a professional at the State Department or the CIA or the NSC who is aware of classification rules and should be aware of how you learned what you are talking about and you send me something about Fordow on the "low end" meaning your nonsecure email to my nonsecure email, it's a reasonable assumption for me to make that this is not classified.

He even says that he didn't proceed with charges because she didn't intend to violate the law thus confirming that she did, indeed, break the law.

That's not what Comey said. He said you needed to intentionally misuse the classified info for and indictment to be filed.

The reality is if Clinton was not running for President of the United States, this never would have gone to the FBI.

VaginalCanal

She violated section 1924 of title 18 of the US Crimes and criminal procedure code which states:

(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, con- tractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such doc- uments or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or mate- rials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both.

The FBI confirmed that they recovered 110 emails containing classified information. How many more included classified information is unknown because they were deleted, hard drives wiped by bleachbit and then smashed with hammers along with their blackberries. She claims she want aware of the classified markings, however, ignorance doesn't exclude someone from punishment. There is a clear violation which the FBI decided to give her a free pass.

So, if I'm understanding you properly, she didn't violate the law even though the law specifically addresses exactly what she did?

Edit: If I am correct, I believe I am, then what I stated earlier still stands. She committed a crime and then the FBI allowed a criminal to determine what evidence was allowed to be scrutinized thus giving her the opportunity to dispose of further incriminating evidence.

Are_we_sure

Yeah.

It's a real good try, but she did not violate this statue. Opening an email is not removing documents and the statue says clearly says "knowingly" so your bit about ignorance doesn't apply. Why does this statue say "knowingly?" It's because they are making a distinction between someone being careless and committing an intentional act. One is criminal and one is not. So no, she did not commit this misdemeanor.

She had political liability, not criminal liability. No one has faced charges for what she did. This from the lawfare blog informs why I say that.

" it's very clearly not the sort of thing the Justice Department prosecutes either. For the last several months, people have been asking me what I thought the chances of an indictment were. I have said each time that there is no chance without evidence of bad faith action of some kind. People simply don't get indicted for accidental, non-malicious mishandling of classified material. I have followed leak cases for a very long time,.... I have never seen a criminal matter proceed without even an allegation of something more than mere mishandling of sensitive information. Hillary Clinton is not above the law, but to indict her on these facts, she'd have to be significantly below the law."

VaginalCanal

So, if I'm driving along 15 mph over the speed limit and get pulled over, I can legally avoid the ticket by saying I wasn't paying attention to the speedometer?

Late edit.....

I didn't really read through and respond properly, so, I figure ill give it another shot.

My original response was off base to say the least. In fact, my attempted analogy doesn't apply to the situation. I was wrong.

I can see your point. While I concede to your point regarding the term "knowingly", it is rather ambiguous but ambiguity is not on my side.

That being said, a woman who had spent her entire life in politics should know the rules governing her position. She should also know what markings are used to designate information as classified. To say she didn't is asinine.

A case could easily bee made to prosecute this case. She "knowingly" used a private server without proper authority. It is also fact that this server was used, intentionally or not, to transmit information clearly marked as classified. She knew she was in violation when using a private server as 2 separate IT (see link) members were told to keep quiet on the matter. To say that she didn't "intend" to violate the law could easily be debunked in court. Add in the additional information we have, such add Coney dogs memo regarding his decision not to prosecute that was written before her interviewed her and her staff (he lied under oath mind you), the sweet immunity deals given to her staff as well as her destruction of evidence and you have a pattern of evidence that suggest she did in fact knowingly violate the law. It would certainly be enough for a judge to issue a supeona for the email records held by the NSA. Not that a supeona was necessary as they volunteered to hand them over. Either way, all this is exactly what she lost the election. Any average American would have been fired and prosecuted yet magically she avoids any punishment.

There is clearly a different set of rules for politicians and Americans are tied of it. She is not above the law.

https://www.computerworld.com/article/3075347/government-it/state-dept-it-staff-told-to-keep-quiet-about-clinton-s-server.html

Edit #2:

"It's a real good try, but she did not violate this statue. Opening an email is not removing documents and the statue says clearly says "knowingly" so your bit about ignorance doesn't apply. Why does this statue say "knowingly?" It's because they are making a distinction between someone being careless and committing an intentional act. One is criminal and one is not. So no, she did not commit this misdemeanor.

She had political liability, not criminal liability. No one has faced charges for what she did. This from the lawfare blog informs why I say that.

" it's very clearly not the sort of thing the Justice Department prosecutes either. For the last several months, people have been asking me what I thought the chances of an indictment were. I have said each time that there is no chance without evidence of bad faith action of some kind. People simply don't get indicted for accidental, non-malicious mishandling of classified material. I have followed leak cases for a very long time,.... I have never seen a criminal matter proceed without even an allegation of something more than mere mishandling of sensitive information. Hillary Clinton is not above the law, but to indict her on these facts, she'd have to be significantly below the law."

Isn't deleting an email that contains classified information considered removing? If the information were marked classified, then she knowingly removed classified info thus putting her in violation of the law.

Are_we_sure

I just remembered the term for when classified info turns up in a non-classified documents, spillage.

Clinton's issues were both government wide issues: spillage and records retention.

Spillage is

Security incident that occurs whenever classified data is spilled either onto an unclassified information system or to an information system with a lower level of classification or different security category.

You don't get prosecuted for spillage. Mainly because it's mostly accidental. You could get disciplined by your agency. This is precisely what Comey meant when he said careless, but not a crime.

No agency fully complies with the National Records Acts. And there's no real penalty for noncompliance. The IG report said "NARA reported that 80 percent of agencies had an elevated risk for the improper management of electronic records, "

VaginalCanal

Had she followed the rules, and not used a personal server, this wouldn't even be an issue. Why would anyone, especially someone who is as technologically inept as Clinton is, need a private server in her home. Furthermore, why would she use it to conduct government business. She could have run her personal server for her personal email and still had her .gov email access on her BB.

I dont buy it.

Are_we_sure

Had she followed the rules, and not used a personal server, this wouldn't even be an issue.

I agree.

Why would anyone, especially someone who is as technologically inept as Clinton is, need a private server in her home.

This is kind of like saying, I shouldn't have plumbing or electrical wiring in my house because I'm inept with construction. She was not the person who dealt with the server. That is also addressed in the Politico article. One techie wanted it and the other did not.

Furthermore, why would she use it to conduct government business. She could have run her personal server for her personal email and still had her .gov email access on her BB.

I thought I mentioned it. It would mean carrying two devices around. This really began as "the boss" doesn't want to be inconvenienced. And again that would do nothing to the stop the issue with classified info being included in emails sent to her. Which is the legal issue. The server was not a legal issue.

If she was carrying a government device, it would still be an insecure device and still be prone to the issue of "spillage" of classifed info.

VaginalCanal

You know, you're not as big of a douchebag as I thought you were. Don't get me wrong. I think you're a douche but not like I had previously.

We don't have to agree to get along. Previously, I just down voated all your posts without contributing. We will never be on the same page but i stop down voating you to hell. Unless you're Just being a fuck stick.

Respect.

Are_we_sure

thanks. lol.

I usually am not bad unless someone is being dick and then I respond it in kind. Also sometimes posts are so far into conspiracyland that they deserve no respect.

My key thing is all humans are prone to this mistakes in thinking. It's how are brains are wired. You need to actually work to remain logical.

VaginalCanal

I agree with that in part. Logical is a relative term. I believe I'm a logical individual, as are you I assume. However, our beliefs are polar opposite. Let me rephrase; the views and you express appear at odds with mine.

You consistently defend the left and I despise them. I could easily consider you illogical as you support a party that has actively conspired against our nation. You could easily consider my positions illogical as I believe an lifetime public servant is capable of, not only, betraying her sworn oath to this nation but of actively trying to subvert the principals this nation are founded upon.

So, who is illogical?

Are_we_sure

Mostly I'm defending them against falsehoods, like they have actively conspired against our nation.

What you are describing is using logic in service of a belief. I don't think the logic is a relative term here. I just don't think it's the starting point. And politics is so emotional that confirmation bias happens all the time.

VaginalCanal

Fair enough. I agree, there are extremes on both sides which is driven by a combination of ignorance and bias.

That being said, I do believe they have conspired against our nation. For the last 16 years, we have been involved in a pointless war. One of which I was a part of. We created and actively support terrorism (in the form of ISIS) and we funded Iran with a huge shipment of cash which was supposedly to free some hostages.

Our politicians go into public service under the guise of bettering or nation but come out multi-millionaires while only drawing a modest salary. They are bought and paid for. They side with big business at the expense of our residents. They send millions in foreign aid to other nations, export our jobs and import foreign people while ignoring the millions of homeless already here. Our veterans suffer because the VA had been run into the ground. They will dole out opioids like they are being paid by big pharma while ignoring the issue. Getting treatment is nearly impossible and yet they expect us to trust them to run a single payer system.

Literally, everything they have done over the last 8 years has been nothing shy of catastrophic to our nation. I, literally, can't think of one item that had made this nation better.

Are_we_sure

We created and actively support terrorism (in the form of ISIS)

The US did not create or support ISIS. The most you could say is the invasion of Iraq set in motion the conditions from which ISIS came out of. ISIS of course was an enemy we actively fought during the Iran war.

we funded Iran with a huge shipment of cash which was supposedly to free some hostages.

This was Iran's money. We were going to have to pay this back. The only question was how much we had to pay. This was one of many cases that stem from the Iran Hostage crisis. At the end of the Hostage Crisis we signed the Aligiers Accords that set up a tribunal in the Hague to settle lawsuits between the two countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_Accords https://www.state.gov/s/l/3199.htm

This case was one of those lawsuits. Iran paid us $400 million for an arms deal in 1970's. When the Ayatollah took over, we froze that money. The tribunal handled almost 5,000 claims. US companies got $2.5 billion from these claims. This $400 million and 30 years on interest on it were one of the last claims. Iran was claiming on the last remaining claims with interest we owed them $4 billion. There was a possibility we could lose at the tribunal and be on the hook for $4 billion. So the money we sent to Iran was a settlement for less than their claim.

Literally, everything they have done over the last 8 years has been nothing shy of catastrophic to our nation. I, literally, can't think of one item that had made this nation better.

8 years ago the economy was falling off a cliff and we were in the midst of an the worst economic catastrophe since the Great Depression. So I can think of one. I don't think the crime stats are in yet for 2016, but from 2009 to 2015 every year the murder rate was under 5.0 per 100,000 population. At no point since good stats started in 1960 have we had 7 years in a row under 5.0. We are also in the longest streak of continuous job growth ever

https://www.ten-x.com/company/blog/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/09/august-2017-job-additions.jpg

The last time we lost jobs in a month was in 2010. Next month will be 7 full years I believe.

Are_we_sure

She should also know what markings are used to designate information as classified. To say she didn't is asinine.

An indication of classification begins way before a portion marking, you need to let the reader know they are dealing with a classified document before they begin reading it. In the cases you cite, the markings were not in a classified document. Classified documents let you know upfront the document is classified with big giant markings "conspicuously at the top and the bottom of the page."

• Conspicuously place the overall classification at the top and bottom of the page. • If the document contains more than one page, place the overall marking at the top and bottom of the outside of the front cover, on the title page, on the first page, and on the outside of the back cover (if any). • Mark other internal pages either with the overall classification or with a marking indicating the highest classification level of information contained on that page.

You also need to identify the "classification authority" who classified the document and the reason for its classification and when it becomes declassified.

Identify the original classification authority (OCA) by name and position or personal identifier. Classification authority block: “Reason” for classification line This indicates the duration of classification.

https://www.archives.gov/files/isoo/training/marking-booklet.pdf

Portion markings do not make a document a "classified document." In fact, portion markings make no sense in a document that is not marked up as classified. If I'm reading a document that is not marked as classified in anyway, what would (c) in the text of that email mean? For what's worth, the State Department declared that the two documents they were aware of that had portion markings were wrongly marked and not classified at that time. http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2016/07/hillary-clinton-classified-emails-error-225194

A case could easily bee made to prosecute this case. She "knowingly" used a private server without proper authority. It is also fact that this server was used, intentionally or not, to transmit information clearly marked as classified.

She did knowingly use a private server and as I explained before that was not illegal. It was against Department policy to "exclusively" use private email. But it was not illegal. (I believe they changed the law in 2014) Legally, there is absolutely no distinction between Colin Powell's AOL account and Clinton's clintonemail.com account. I actually read the State Department guidelines and the law when this came out, because the NY Times article was so incoherent it never actually indicated what the rules were. When Clinton was Secretary, the State Department had instuction on what you needed to do when you used private email for government work. Mainly you had to make sure your government records were archived. This is why when she turned over her emails, she had to print them out. That was a requirement for the government archive, because the State Department did not have an electronic archiving system set up yet. Even if she used @state .gov. She or somebody else would have had to print out all her emails to comply with the National Records Act.

to transmit information clearly marked as classified.

This is false, there were zero emails in her account "clearly marked as classifed." That is completely false. As a pointed out above none of the emails sent to her were properly marked as classified. James Comey testified to this exact point before Congress.

Coney dogs memo regarding his decision not to prosecute that was written before her interviewed her and her staff (he lied under oath mind you)

Nope. It's a common practice to write an initial draft before any interviews are done. (Lawyers, Prosecutors and Judges do this quite frequently. As an investigative tool, it helps to organize your thoughts and make you research your assertions.

And in this case, the FBI had already done an enormous amount of investigation and knew what was happening. Basically the only thing that would have resulted in criminal charges is if someone lied to the FBI. And in that case, you just edit your draft. This truly is a nothingburger. It exists because if they can't find something to impeach Comey, the President is facing a very strong obstruction of justice case.

There's no destruction of evidence by Clinton. She asked her lawyers to determine which emails were federal records and which were not. She asked the emails that were not federal records to be deleted and she did this before the inspector general became involved. Her legal liability here is zero. There's zero evidence for a judge to suboena the NSA. First off, the NSA does not capture the content of emails. There would be zero way to determine from the metadata that the NSA does have if any thing was classified. Secondly, it's illegal for the NSA to get involved outside of a FISA warrant, so that judge would not have authority to request this.

Any average American would have been fired and prosecuted yet magically she avoids any punishment......She is not above the law.

This is categorically untrue. Nobody has ever been prosecuted for what she was accused of. In fact, the dozens of other folks on the email chains who used unsecured NSA, CIA, White House and State email acounts would face the same legal jeopardy she did, but the FBI didn't even look at them. You are arguing that Clinton be placed "below the law."

This article based on the FBI interviews probable gets closest to how all the decisions got made. There were a number of factors.
1. Clinton was not technically adept and only used a Blackberry for email, not a personal computer because she was never good with personal computers. Trump too, he doesn't use a computer. These are folks who had aides and assistants by the time the web came around. When dealing with classified documents she only dealt with them in hard copy within the secure SCIF areas. Thus to her

  1. The State Department technology sucks. At the time you couldn't put a personal email on a government device. The only person who got a government secured smartphone was Obama and I don't even think that was when he took office, it was later. She didn't want two devices so she used a personal device and personal email. Blackberries were not allowed into Secure areas, so she would have to stow her Blackberry outside her office. State.gov email didn't work on Air Force planes, so while flying you were incommunicado.

  2. Because State's technology sucked use of private email accounts was very widespread. The Inspector General report found tons of issues with archiving personal email going back 20 years at State. Remember when I said that to archive Clinton's email you would have to print each one? The IG report found the people responsible were too embarrassed to tell people about this requirement. There were “ 'not comfortable' advising the new administration to print and file email records."

There's a lot you could fault Clinton for, but none of it is criminal. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/hillary-clinton-emails-2016-server-state-department-fbi-214307

Her preference for a personal email account was not technically against the rules. At State, FBI agents later found, there was “no restriction on use of personal email accounts for official business,” but employees were cautioned about security and records retention concerns. The State Department told employees that they should forward such emails to their official accounts for recordkeeping purposes. “There were no rules in place that specifically denied Secretary Clinton the use of her private network,” but, according to the State Department IG Steve Linick, private email was “highly discouraged.”

....

One State employee told the FBI he regularly used nonsecure email and personal email simply because there was no other way to quickly transmit information. The FBI found “many DoS employees used personal email accounts because they were more easily accessible.” Clinton aide Monica Hanley told the FBI that “her state.gov email account was not as easily accessible as her Gmail account and on some occasions she used Gmail when she could not access her State.gov account.” There were particularly problems connecting to State.gov accounts on board the Air Force planes that Clinton used to travel, so staff often would use Gmail or other personal accounts while traveling.

Jem777

AreWeSure left you a message below. Quickly though the 33,000 is Trumps number you are right I don't believe him he is underestimating the amount of lying and cover-up....there are much better sources that have the main server including Awans off site server as over 650,000...thx

Are_we__sure

650,000 emails from Hillary Clinton? or are you mixing and matching here.

Blacksmith21

Hallmark of the Marxist shill - strangle them with paperwork aka typos. You suck you piece of filth. You are aware when this whole thing is done, people like you will meet an unfortunate fate in the middle of the street, right?

Are_we__sure

I'm a Marxist? You're trolling.

IKillNazis

Lol. These fuckers and their murder fantasies. Your insane ass will be killed by a police officer and no one will care.

fogdryer

I agree He needs to lose his license As well

This strategy isn't working quite well. I think we Need to turn it up a notch