I found this as a comment on the GW channel regarding citizens right to form a Grand Jury. Thought it may be useful here, it's very interesting and may be of help to us.
TLDR: The government has devoted years to making the grand jury impotent. We should restore the citizen's grand jury as a body of the people, entirely outside of government, as intended.
The US Citizen's Grand Jury
The Citizens must take back their control of the Grand Jury. The limitations placed upon the grand jury by the DOJ are unconstitutional, therefore, are to be disregarded.
While I do not know that George (Webb) can present to the present Federal grand jury with its present prosecutor, forming another jury is our right to do, in complete opposition to the current Justice Dept. rules. *see below:
From the ratification of the Bill of Rights in 1789, up until and to some extent beyond its codification in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, a Federal grand jury practice went for the most part unregulated by statute.[82]
This was due to the limited constitutional jurisdiction of the federal government, and to the scarcity of federal statutes governing criminal justice, a domain traditionally reserved to the states.[83]
In its traditional form, the citizen grand jury had come to be seen as an inefficient, unnecessary and possibly dangerous phenomenon.[84]
Ultimately, a combination of judicial activism, executive contempt and legislative apathy left the federal grand jury weakened and contained before it had a chance to truly roam free.[85]
1946 ENACTMENT OF THE FEDERAL RULES
In 1946, the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure were adopted, codifying what had previously been a vastly divergent set of common law procedural rules and regional customs.[86]
In general, an effort was made to conform the rules to the contemporary state of federal criminal practice.[87]
In the area of federal grand jury practice, however, a remarkable exception was allowed. The drafters of Rules 6 and 7, which loosely govern federal grand juries, denied future generations of what had been the well-recognized powers of common law grand juries: powers of unrestrained investigation and of independent declaration of findings.
The committee that drafted the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure provided no outlet for any document other than a prosecutor-signed indictment. In so doing, the drafters at least tacitly, if not affirmatively, opted to ignore explicit constitutional language.[88]
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE passim (1996) (stating that the U.S. Justice Department now operates with few structural limitations and has become increasingly unaccountable). 19.
Properly speaking, the Fifth Amendment right to indictment applies only to the federal government. The right to indictment by grand jury is one of the only provisions of the Bill of Rights that has not been incorporated to the States by the Supreme Court.
The Supreme Court first rejected incorporation of the right in Hurtado v. California, 110 U.S. 516, 538 (1884) and has reaffirmed its holding in subsequent decisions. 20.
In 1906 the United States Supreme Court dealt with the question of whether grand juries could be restricted from straying into investigations of issues not formally presented to them by prosecutors. See Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43 (1916). The Court held that it was "entirely clear . . . under the practice in this country," that grand jurors may proceed upon either their own knowledge or upon the examination of witnesses brought before them, "to inquire for themselves whether a crime cognizable in the court has been committed." Hale, 201 U.S. at 65.
Thus, in some respects, the "runaway" grand jury, though not given such a name at the time, has been upheld by the nation's highest court. It is therefore debatable whether the modern Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which have limited federal grand jury action since 1946, are constitutional. See infra notes 87-128 and accompanying text (discussing the constitutionality of Rules 6);
See also FRANKEL & NAFTALIS, supra note 12, at 111 (mentioning that Rule 6's language "sounds like an inescapable and unambiguous barrier to the grand jury's proceeding without an attorney. . . . [b]ut people learned in the law have seen means of escaping and possibly overriding barriers that appear insurmountable at first. While the barriers here still stand, the debate may not be over.").99.
It must be noted that the capture of the grand jury's presentment power has never faced direct Supreme Court review as to its constitutionality.
The words of United States Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black, when dissenting from the decision to enact the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, are particularly relevant: Whether by this transmittal the individual members of the Court who voted to transmit the rules intended to express approval of the varied policy decisions the rules embody I am not sure.
I am reasonably certain, however, that the Court's transmittal does not carry with it a decision that the amended rules are all constitutional. (
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/runaway.htm)
)
Note: In a sense, this will be breaking new legal ground, as the government has devoted years to making the grand jury impotent. We should restore the citizen's grand jury as a body of the people, entirely outside of government, as intended.
For that reason, I see no reason to even consult with the government, but rather to go about the business of carefully constituting a jury for the business at hand, and eventually provide a presentment of their findings, and let the public decide who is most just, which system is fair, who represents their interests.
▼ StSimonTrentPray4Us
Thomas Jefferson was also very skeptical of the Supreme Court and lamented about how much power was given to it.
▼ alphabravo
Thanks for your input here, it's appreciated. Who knows, it may be of help to others researching this subject
▼ StSimonTrentPray4Us
Thank you and I agree. Hopefully just casting seeds may help some where down the line.
▼ StSimonTrentPray4Us
Our number of Representives are also capped. It used to be more Reps per population of people. Increased population should not be an excuse to change that proportion. All the more need for it in fact.
▼ alphabravo
Excellent point
▼ StSimonTrentPray4Us
Thank you for the feedback. I hope the issue can raise to public discourse at some point. The media acts as self elected representatives instead. Can't count on them to bring it up.
▼ alphabravo
Nothing truer and I hope so too. Thanks again.
▼ equineluvr
I see that QE II was 'indicted" by a "citizen's grand jury."
You are smoking crack if you think that this will go anywhere.
▼ Are_we__sure
This is basically LARPing. It's playing a game in real life and will have as much effect as printing up your own wanted posted.
Last I heard, the citizen grand juries that indicted George W. Bush and Barrack Obama had zero effect on their presidencies.
▼ UgTr2
Citizens can't make an effective legal case against their own state because of the nature of the relationship between the citizen and the state. It's the same reason why the sovereign citizen movements always fail.
▼ alphabravo
Let's see
▼ Takeitslow
What's the over under of when it gets infiltrated by the world wide kid fuxking cult? Cause hats what's happened to every organization it seems like. Not being an ass, but it needs to be said. The media portrays this like it's a random thing, we know it's not. Sorry to say but the bankin system has been a part of this alongnwitjbarms trafficking for centuries. The amount of money been traded for these kids is beyond scale.
▼ UgTr2
A grand jury has defects that are not present in a common jury. Both are sworn, but the citizens of a grand jury are dependent upon the state and so cannot hear a case involving the state without prejudice. A common jury (i.e. a jury at common law) is made up of freemen and has no such defect.
LAWFUL MAN. A freeman, unattainted, and capable of bearing oath; a legalis homo. (Blacks 1st edition)
▼ alphabravo
Thanks for this. So a case involving the state cannot be held by grand jury for these reasons, rather a common jury / jury at common law should be held. Is this correct?
▼ UgTr2
Yes. The grand jury developed in the United States, which has a civil political model (the Senate). Common law and civil law has always been at odds regarding the ethics and mechanisms of protection, for example the redefinition of the law of the land (of the U.S.) to exclude oaths as the singular means of evaluating truth. The common law has a theistic basis, but the separation of church and state in th U.S. led to implied atheism in that making oath was no longer regarded as significant; affirmations were deemed to be equally effective. "We the people" were historically responsible for the creation of the federation of states and remain the authoritative party for effecting remedies relating to that federation.
▼ alphabravo
Some 'How To' links ----
Presentment Instructions -- https://youtu.be/HevcG0UszXw
Citizens Grand Jury Validity and Legal Authority -- https://youtu.be/O6Hb0pW1eoE https://youtu.be/yrdoFhSO8LI
Grand Jury Process -- https://youtu.be/4B3MhwFbI3U
Take Back America w/ Grand Juries -- https://youtu.be/GAC6w_HC5Cw
Rule of Law Radio - How to File Criminal Charges Against Public Officials -- https://youtu.be/1-b-NC4fXo4
▼ Jem777
GW has filed two motions to intervene in the Awan case thus far attempting to stop the US Government from covering up these crimes by slapping a little bank fraud charge.
He just now was inside the capital building filming Andre Carson and Greg Meeks offices and their proximity to the closet where the Awan laptop was found.
He has also petitioned the Federal Grand Jury out of Maryland (next to D.C.) to present evidence. There does not have to be a Federal Prosecutor under the constitution the Citizens can bring a grand jury case when the government has not acted, is corrupt, etc.
We need to have a grand jury trial.
▼ alphabravo
All very interesting and compelling, and with the added possibility of making a grand jury case. The implications of the OP, if correct, are far reaching. Thanks for your comment.