argosciv

WHAAAAAAT?! (happy excitement)

karma101

Reposting this link. For some reason it got taken down 5 minutes ago. Podesta - Uranium One - Lobbying Report https://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=getFilingDetails&filingID=85BAE6C7-C301-4D21-BAF8-1A6B596249C7&filingTypeID=78 

Gothamgirl

Thank god! Hopefully when their dominoes are done falling, it's now where near the pasta!

eucalyptus_spearmint

lmao!!!!

PrideOfOshtekk

Tony Tony Tony. You shoulda seen this coming buddy. Try again in the next Life :D :D :D

Incompetent faggot.

darkknight111

Looks like Are We Sure's "Waaahhhhh, muh Russians!!!!" narrative has been shut down.

Looks like you don't bat 1000 after all. You're not an expert on everything now aren't you. I hate you, worthless shill piece of shit.

Go on. Get on your hands and knees and start licking our collective boots liar.

Redpilled_Canadian

When are these people going to be criminally charged? It seems the just resign or get "fired" and then just come back into the fold with another company... Podesta needs to hang

bopper

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/24/tucker-bombshell-podesta-group-is-in-muellers-crosshairs-over-russian-influence/

“Their telephone number in Brussels rang in Kiev. It was a sham, yet it had a presence in Washington. The European Centre for a Modern Ukraine was a major client of the Podesta Group. Why did the Russians choose the Podesta Group? Because both Podestas were close to the Clintons, and Hillary was then Secretary of State. She could get things done for the Podestas’ Russian clients. It was influence peddling, the most obvious kind,” he continued.

The Podesta Group has close ties with Hillary Clinton.

Carlson said of the ties, “Sometimes, our source told us, ties between the Podesta Group and the Clintons were explicit. Tony Podesta spoke regularly to Hillary Clinton while she ran the State Department. Our source remembers Podesta’s assistant announcing that Secretary Clinton is on the line.'”

theHubrisOfMan

Bet he wishes he could grab a flight to that island in Japan.

alphabravo

Politico excerpt -

Podesta Group has struggled in the wake of the Mueller investigation. More than a dozen of its lobbying clients have cut ties with the firm this year, according to lobbying filings. Revenues have also declined: The firm brought in an estimated $4.8 million in the third quarter of 2017, down from $5.2 million in the second quarter of 2017 and from $6.1 million in the third quarter of 2016.

InnocentAngels

The rats were scrambling.

srayzie

It fills me with joy to see their lives all falling apart

APE-EX

I know this is the wrong place but I desperately need 10 points to send an important private message to another user. Please help.

srayzie

To who and say what?

Just kidding. Curious and nose 🙄

Shizy

GUILTY!!!!

resurgence

How are Manafort and Comey team clinton??

Are_we__sure

This has nothing to do with UraniumOne. Read the Manafort indictment. Two lobbying firms are mentioned but not by name. Firms knew they were working for Ukrainian govt, but didn't file as foreign agent.

cantsleepawink

Don't let them bury the crimes of pedophilia and trafficking.

paulf

Thanks for this - pretty solid reasoning. I'm not sure I buy the 'Mueller is our guy' thing just yet. WHA claimed that and he was a LARP. Maybe. Gonna wait and see with this one but it's definitely possible.

bopper

This is good. Who is this Anon supposed to be? I just skimmed it. Thanks. Was that Podesta pic there when this thread was going down? I mean on the same date? If so this guy had inside info.

Dressage2

I am so glad it is finally imploding from Hollywood to D.C. Fuck all you pedophiles.

Are_we__sure

That is hilarious. Trump wants to protect Obama, good grief.

srayzie

I didn't know you had a sense of humor. You usually show absolutely no emotion. Like a bot.

Are_we__sure

Seriously? I joke on here quite often. As the comment above notes, not everyone gets my jokes

Shizy

You're so weird

srayzie

I haven't noticed

darkknight111

Remember, Are We Sure claimed his death threats against @meJ777 were a joke.

The ones that make references to the murder of Scalia and one of Jeffery Dauhmer's murders.

Dressage2

Yeah, that was pretty outrageous threatening @mej777 .

srayzie

Very true

bopper

Gosh you don't know the man do you? That's not the damn point. It's because Obama is a "former president." That sounds just like Donald. He's patriotic to a fault.

I remember people laughing when David Lifton stated that in his upcoming 1000 page book that he would reveal that LBJ stuck his own damn hands in the coffin to help switch the body. I'm from Texas. They don't even know the man would urinate in front of female reporters.

Are_we__sure

Donald Trump is patriotic to a fault? Name a time Trump put the country ahead of his own interests.

For example let's start when he even though he played sports all through college as soon as he graduated he magically got bone spurs that gave him a 1-Y classification that kept him from being called to Vietnam. This bone spurs then magically went away on their own with no operation needed and it was either the left or the right or both legs. He can't remember.

bopper

It's surface patriotism, he's as selfish as anyone else, and if placed in his shoes we'd cop out too (if indeed he did and I wouldn't be surprised, just as W. Bush did in National Guard service). Possibly I should have said "faulty" patriotism instead of patriot to a fault.

"It's hard to carry a full cup." He's done fairly well. I would say in these last years he has put the "country" ahead of his own interests. Unfortunately we don't have a "country," it was hijacked by moneyed interests since at least Woodrow Wilson, who admits he sold us out.

Are_we__sure

Faulty patriotism definitely sounds more like it. Remind me, are you from the same church as his mother? Or am I thinking of someone else.

I have no idea why you think he has put the country ahead of his own interests.

He would have divested himself from his business if he actually believe in that. He would be following government ethics rules. He would have called the American Justice service a laughingstock.

He's championing a tax bill that is designed to serve his interests, the interests of his children and his rich friends and will take away my usual tax refund to pay for it.

He promoted his wife jewelry line and Ivanka's clothing line. Jared Kusner's family was touting EB-5 investor visas to the Chinese. HIs business is still pursuing foreign deals after pledging not too.

I also have no idea why think he has done fairly well. He's had one scandal after another since he took office. His National Security Advisor didn't last a month and Trump knew all about what he was accused of and didn't fire him. He only fired him when it became public. Flynn told Trump he was under investigation as being a paid foreign agent BEFORE Trump was innaugurated.

bopper

Yes I'm the one that has the church connection and I've been to his island and home church twice. It's quite remote. I have many friends over there. Trump's so called scandals are nothing compared to others (Clinton, Obama and his birth certificate and "wife," and he hasn't conspired to kill Americans by false flagging on 911 as Bush has). Etc. Bush Sr. You really don't like the man do you? I'm not sure what to make or think of you. I think you're sincere tho in your contempt for Trump, you still think the whole thing is a con. You should look at other sources, not MSM.

Are_we__sure

Obama and his birth certificate......he hasn't conspired to kill Americans by false flagging on 911 as Bush has

You're really deep into conspiracy think aren't you?

Yes, I sincerely do believe Donald Trump is a conman.

Two pieces of evidence.

  1. The man had to pay $25 million dollars in a fraud settlement.

  2. The man claimed to have no connections to Russia, no business dealings in Russia. And then we find out he was trying to build Trump Tower in Moscow WHILE CAMPAIGNING FOR PRESIDENT. He personally signed a letter of intent on the deal.

Trump signed letter of intent for Russian tower during campaign, lawyer says Four months into his campaign for president of the United States, Donald Trump signed a letter of intent to pursue a Trump Tower–style building development in Moscow, according to a statement from the Trump Organization’s then–chief counsel, Michael Cohen.

The proposal would have involved construction of the world’s tallest building in Moscow, according to developers of the project.

The involvement of then-candidate Trump in a proposed Russian skyscraper deal contradicts repeated statements Trump made during the campaign, including telling ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that his business had “no relationship to Russia whatsoever.” http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-knew-moscow-tower-proposal-campaign-lawyer/story?id=49472342

and not only that his company reached out to Putin's people on this deal.

Top Trump Organization executive asked Putin aide for help on business deal

A top executive from Donald Trump’s real estate company emailed Russian President Vladi­mir Putin’s personal spokesman during the U.S. presidential campaign last year to ask for help advancing a stalled Trump Tower development project in Moscow, according to documents submitted to Congress on Monday.

The request came in a mid-January 2016 email from Michael Cohen, one of Trump’s closest business advisers, who asked longtime Putin lieutenant Dmitry Peskov for assistance in reviving a deal that Cohen suggested was languishing.

“Over the past few months I have been working with a company based in Russia regarding the development of a Trump Tower-Moscow project in Moscow City,” Cohen wrote to Peskov, according to a person familiar with the email. “Without getting into lengthy specifics, the communication between our two sides has stalled.

and he was working with the same Russia-American convicted felon who bailed him out before his TV show, funneling Russian and Ex-Soviet money into projects like Trump Soho

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/28/us/politics/trump-tower-putin-felix-sater.html

Seems like a con man to me.

bopper

My point is that he's not in the White House w/ a view to conning the American people. He's not there for money. He sincerely believes he can make a difference. Trump has been talking about this for decades. It's all over youtube.

If you are confused about 911 being a false flag then you're way behind the eight ball. Tell me you don't think Oswald killed the president. You surely do not believe terrorists w/ box cutters defeated the US defense system and flew the equivalent of airborne cruise ships perfectly into the towers?? You're smarter than that.

Are_we__sure

Oswald definitely was the only shooter. No doubt whatsoever.

are you a 9/11 MIHOP or LIHOP guy? So 9/11 was a false flag to invade Iraq by having an event with no Iraqis involved? We invaded Afghanistan just throw people off the trail right?

What US defense system? We don't have a defense system against domestic air traffic? Look up history of hijackers. Prior to 9/11 none were on suicide mission were they?

Trump is very much attempting to personally profit all the presidency. In many, many, many ways. Why do you think he spends as much time as possible at Trump properties? Look into the tax plan and the benefits it hold for real estate businesses.

bopper

Gosh you're confused and misled. (No planes hit the towers BTW.) No doubt whatsoever about Oswald? Do you live under a rock? Come on arewesure, that's an easy one.

Are_we__sure

No planes hit the towers? I would really like to hear why you believe that.

I personally know three people who were in lower Manhattan who heard/saw the event. One witnessed the first impact and two witnessed the second. A jet engine is very loud that close to the ground.

You think all that footaged is faked? (Wierdly, I actually just found a video that was taken very close to where I was on 9/11)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=814rcm4KC5w&feature=youtu.be&t=288

bopper

I've never seen that video but I'm sure others have (so I cannot comment on it). This is plainly CGI animation (below). Interesting that you were there in NYC at the time, must have been scary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzQ4iVzfzeA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3pEStLJyYY

These are cartoonish, complete w/ sound effects, added either real time or on evening news.

This is not what happens when an aluminum airliner impacts concrete and steel bldg. The official report states the aircraft were clocking 500 mph at sea level upon impact, that is impossible for jumbo jets unless they are going straight down in a descent ... they would break apart. Etc. Google "911 planes the ball."

And seriously, Oswald acted alone? You should start there to be able to jump the other cognitive hurdles that will present themselves as you further research.

Eyewitnesses, there are many plausible possibilities w/ a false flag. Yes, this event was the excuse to go into Iraq.

Are_we__sure

It was actually not scary to be in NY that day unless you were close the event or if you knew somebody who was. Watching the fires and collapse was horrific, and the rest of day was spooky and very sad. Ironically it was a perfect day weather-wise. but I never felt like I was physically in danger and neither did anyone close to me. I was sad for the people involved it, but I didn't feel like I was in danger. I felt like a witness. I found out later a close friend was caught up in dust cloud and that a relative I didn't know worked down there and was just getting off the ferry as the plane hit and debris started falling and jumped back on the ferry. He never went back to Manhattan. I was not in that level of danger and it wasn't scary. That night all the restaurants and bars were packed. Everyone wanted to be with friends and among people, I guess. The subways were stopped at some point so I had to walk home, but I could use one of the upper Manhattan bridges and didn't have to go close to the WTC. There was a sense of goodwill and camaraderie among people as we all walked home, but not fear. A couple of times we saw someone walking in the opposite direction completely covered in dust and that was just eerie.

I've never seen that video but I'm sure others have (so I cannot comment on it). This is plainly CGI animation

That's just ridiculous nonsense. Conspiracy gibberish added after the fact. CGI effects added in real time? To home video cameras? In 2001? There a ton of videos of 911 made by regular folks. Many were examined by NIST and are available on youtube by search for FOIA 911 videos. All sorts of cameras captured the experience not just broadcast news cameras. Furthermore, this would involve a conspiracy of thousands of ordinary people. It's ridiculous.

I didn't experience 9/11 on TV. I experienced in on the street looking at the WTC as did thousands of other New Yorkers. There's an incredible number of people who were eyewitnesses to the second plane. You could see in Manhattan of course, but also from Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island and NJ. Lot of people in high rises could look outside their apartment windows.

Like I said I know three eyewitnesses.

This is not what happens when an aluminum airliner impacts concrete and steel bldg.

Because we have so many examples of that we compare that to? Also folks who say this don't seem to have a understanding of how increased velocity affects the force of a object. A tornado can create impacts like this https://www.weather.gov/images/fsd/events/tor2008jun11/IMG_0189_resize.jpg

The official report states the aircraft were clocking 500 mph at sea level upon impact, that is impossible for jumbo jets unless they are going straight down in a descent ... they would break apart. Etc. Google "911 planes the ball."

This is nonsense. First of all. Planes are not tested for straight down descents. A descent is any time a plane lowers its altitude, which happens all the time and not straight down.

Secondly, the speed limit that people throw around is a number that determines what would be safe for the aircraft, not the disintegration point of an aircraft. People who make the claim you make misunderstand what this limit is and what would happen if you exceeded it. All aircraft undergo testing to determine their V speeds.

In aviation, V-speeds are standard terms used to define airspeeds important or useful to the operation of all aircraft.[1] These speeds are derived from data obtained by aircraft designers and manufacturers during flight testing and verified in most countries by government flight inspectors during aircraft type-certification testing. Using them is considered a best practice to maximize aviation safety, aircraft performance or both.[2]

When they test a 767 airliner, they do not test it until it disintegrates. They test for its safe operation. A number that wouldn't apply in a suicide mission. Moreover since the plane manufacture is guaranteeing the plane can be safely flow at its v speeds, they build in a tolerance factor, so that the published V speed is well within safety limits.

These are two speeds that are important

VD Design diving speed, the highest speed planned to be achieved in testing. VDF Demonstrated flight diving speed, the highest actual speed achieved in testing.

Vd for a 767-200 is 483mph. I have seen the tolerances defined as 1.2 and 1.5 times Vd speed. So for the faster of the two planes that hit the towers, it would be 1.2 Vd or 580 mph.

This still doesn't mean you the plane disintegrates at 581mph. It means it becomes unsafe and not recommended. The hijacker on 9/11 was not concerned about plane safety or having his wings flutter.

bopper

Don't have time to respond to everything, but these are pilots who say the planes can't be flown that fast and at that height. They break apart in simulators also at that speed.

You simply cannot accept, w/out doing injustice to your own common sense, that an airplane disappears neatly into a building like that, per the video clip fed to the public by MSM. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Picture it the other way round. A plane is suspended mid-air and a gigantic wall of steel and concrete moving at 500 mph slams into it. What would happen? The nose alone of one of these planes can be destroyed by a kid w/ a sledge hammer. No, the tornado argument doesn't work here, it's a false comparison to say the least.

As for witnesses seeing and witnessing planes and sound, you have to work backwards ... "eliminate everything that is impossible, and whatever is left, however improbable, is the truth." I liken the operation to a master magician, who can astonish crowds, same w/ false flags and sophisticated rogue intel agencies. We are left scratching our heads and saying "Incredible, how did they do that?" And then you begin to see the holes. For most, it is much easier to accept what we're told and move on with our lives, despite glaring inconsistencies.

What you yourself are left with, is nineteen hijackers w/ box cutters overpowering eight or so pilots, all directed by a man in a cave, taking jumbo jets wildly off course and performing impossible aerial acrobatics (w/ sluggish jumbo jets), w/out air defense being able to stop them until mission accomplished, expertly executing the mission hitting each tower perfectly (people who knew nothing about flying) w/ no recoverable plane debris, and on and on, a plane also skipping across the pentagon front lawn and impacting w/ no debris and released security footage showing no plane, a hole in the ground where the fourth plane crashed, again w/ no bodies or debris, etc. etc. It's a huge whopper of a story, it cannot be true.

Even my wife (and many others) will at least concede that it was state sponsored terrorism, not some bogey man in a cave, and she's no conspiracy theorist by any stretch. You remind me of the lady who said even if it (false flag) was true she would not believe it. Or another who said that even if Neil Armstrong himself publicly announced we did not go to the moon she would not accept it. You're smart, I don't understand why you choose to be misled. I mean, LHO you're completely convinced acted alone? You're not doing your due diligence.

I understand your questioning of the Podesta emails and alleged code, I even believe that you were indeed joking when you "threatened" w/ the Dahmer pic and the Scalia thing, and that you do indeed rarely wear a suit and that you work on Power Point presentations (if you're the same one and I think you are) ... I believe you simply, as many, cannot break out of the Matrix, that you are blinded by some ideological "progressive" type ethos that you feel like for some reason you must remain "true" to. Something like that. I gotta run.

Are_we__sure

You simply cannot accept, w/out doing injustice to your own common sense, that an airplane disappears neatly into a building like that,

You need to step back for a second from your commitment to this idea you'be built up and ask yourself if the events of 9/11 can accurately be described as an airplane disappearing neatly into a building. I seem to remember massive destruction and a fireball at impact. Right off the bat you are stepping away from a neutral nonbiased description of the events. You also don't seem aware of the size of these buildings. The floorspace of the WTC was about the size of a football field.

The force of something is due to mass times velocity. A Fully loaded 767 at 500 mph hour is a massive, massive force. It's massively heavy and going incredibly fast.

Every see a ping pong ball blast through a ping pong paddle? I have. You just need to get moving fast enough. Like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYNCGZCul1Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc-zmb3jAgo

equal and opposite reaction.

The plane acted upon the building and created a giant hole. The building acted upon the plane and the plane was completely destroyed in the process. As for you example of a stationary plane and a moving building, I believe physics would say the exact same impact would happen, but I haven't studied physics in a while. A tornado which has winds less than 500mph can put a plank of wood into a cinderblock wall.

Momentum is something which completely undersand on a smaller scale in every day life. What creates home runs? What puts a tiny shotgun pellet through a wall? How can a small bullet of a few grams of soft lead?

High velocity creating great momentum. Did you think the plane could crumple up outside the building and fall to the earth?

per the video clip fed to the public by MSM.

This is the standard conspiracy bit about the MSM all work together, they are not competing against each other for money and they work lockstep with the government. By the time of the second impact thousands of people were looking at the burning world trade center tower when the plane hit the other tower. Many of these people were videoing in the event. There's no way for the government or the media to control these many people. Downtown Manhattan is one of the most densely populated places in world at 9am on a workday. Just those two buildings had 50,000 occupants and it was surrounded by other large buildings. The towers offered unobstructed views in 360 degrees to folks uptown across the Hudson in NJ, across the harbor to Staten Island, across the East River to Brooklyn and Queens. Not mention anyone on a boat on these waterways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14hP8FxJdc This compliation of raw footage shows how many neighborhoods had a clear view of the WTC that day. I can recognize a few for certain.

Battery Park City and several locations in lower manhattan. Dumbo Greenpoint

That's like several hundred thousand potential witnesses any of whom could have a camera and as you could tell if you lived in a high rise apartment building you would have an awesome obstructed view of the Towers.

As for witnesses seeing and witnessing planes and sound, you have to work backwards ... "eliminate everything that is impossible, and whatever is left, however improbable, is the truth."

Unfortunately, we have already shown that your sense of what is possible and impossible doesn't scale to events like these with its incredibly high force at impact.

What you yourself are left with, is nineteen hijackers w/ box cutters overpowering eight or so pilots, all directed by a man in a cave,

Oh no, you did buy this cliche did you? A man in a cave? Really? Did he grow up in that cave and live there full time? Or did he go there to avoid bombs being dropped? Bin Laden was an elite member of his society had travelled and worked at his father's business on massive construction projects. The guys who came up with this plot graduated with an engineering degree from a college in the UK and an engineering degree from a college in the US. The ringleader who actually pulled it off was trained as an architect and was studing at a technical College in Germany.

bopper

I don't buy the man in the cave, I thought you did / would. Yeah I know bin Laden clan, one of em hung w/ the Bushes, they had Houston's most expensive home, whichever bin Laden it was. Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets."

The guys who came up with this plot graduated with an engineering degree from a college in the UK and an engineering degree from a college in the US. The ringleader who actually pulled it off was trained as an architect and was studing at a technical College in Germany.

I see. Where is that from?

Are you saying that is a real clip, the plane disappearing into a skyscraper unharmed, like a cartoon?? Not even the wings sheared off, the nose unscathed?

By the time of the second impact thousands of people were looking at the burning world trade center tower when the plane hit the other tower. Many of these people were videoing in the event. There's no way for the government or the media to control these many people.

Then there should be a YouTube compilation video of all these various and sundry views. Let me know if you have one.

The media has become monolithic. https://youtu.be/KZ1mA1NeUmU?t=18 Not the greatest example but come on, why are you so deceived? You still think Trump "colluded" w/ Russians? I'm talking to someone smart, but someone who admits they believe the Warren Commission. Do you know it is documented that there was a casket switch of Kennedy aboard Air Force One? Documented, eyewitnesses, on tape. Body loaded onto plane in expensive bronze casket (unloaded empty on news), arrived at back of Bethesda in a body bag and cheap metal shipping casket. You got a lot to catch up on.

Are_we__sure

I see. Where is that from?

I'm speaking of Ramzi Yusuf who came up with a plot to use simultaneous flights in a bombing plot, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who refined this plot into the 911 plot and Mohammed Atta who executed it. Also this info on their backgrounds is widely known. KSM studied in NC.

I recommend The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawrence Wright

bopper

None of this is convincing. The plan to go into Iraq and Middle East was in play before Bush was pres. The twin towers were the pearl harbor (much talked about in inner circles) event needed to make it happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

https://youtu.be/ETqX3DRtZtU?t=227

You're in denial about the MSM video cartoon, the plane obviously did not break into smaller parts in this "proof" video, the whole thing slid neatly into the building, that's why it is called "ghost plane." Do you believe Purdue or your own eyes? The media disseminated a cartoon. Further, when the security video of the pentagon plane was released, there was no plane, just an explosion. You are buying into nonsense concerning the biggest false flag in the history of the USA. Screw Purdue, they have an agenda.

Are_we__sure

None of this is convincing. The plan to go into Iraq and Middle East .....

Why are you bringing politics into an argument about physics? That's a big red flag for motivated reasoning. Furthermore, you are not describing mutually exclusive events.

A 911 false flag to active this plan COULD involve a plane crashing into the building. You don't need any alternate theories.

You're in denial about the MSM video cartoon

You're still in denial that I told I personally know three witnesses who heard a plane screaming overhead loud and low and looked up to see it smash into the Trade Center. There's many, many other people like. I learned of 911 on the street, not from the media. I was miles away though.

The highway into Manhattan from Brooklyn offers a clear view of both towers and is usually very slow due to traffic. There would be thousands of witnesses with this view.

the plane obviously did not break into smaller parts in this "proof" video, the whole thing slid neatly into the building

I have no idea what you are talking about here. The plane did break into smaller parts. Most that destruction would have happened as the disintegrating plane and its parts continued through the building. This is standard physics.

A 22 bullet fired from a pistol will easily go through a quarter inch of wood. However it may not go through a foot of wood or two feet of wood. In order to stop the bullet you have to absorb all the kinetic energy. The physics are exactly the same as with the plane. I showed you that it doesn't matter the hardness of the materials involved. A ping pong ball moving fast enough smashes through a wooden ping pong paddle. In fact it acts just a like bullet even though the bullet is made of lead and the ball light plastic.

For the building to stop the plane from entering it would have to absorb all the kinetic energy from the plane.....an energy that is massively more than the bullet. A 22 bullet fired from a pistol might weigh 2 grams and travel at a bit under 700 mph. Well the plane was slower, travelling at 500 mph per hour, but it weighed massively more, like 120 million times more. This gives us a massive kinetic energy even before the jet fuel fireball.

22 bullet roughly equal to 95 joules of energy Plane roughly equal to 2983740000 Joules of energy

The slower, but more massive object has 34 million times more energy. It's equivalent to 1572 pounds of dynamite.

The wings of the plane are filled with fuel, so the wings are massively heavy and moving very fast. When they hit the building, standard physics would apply. The impact force would create a certain strain over the area impacted, the strain would create a deformation in the material. If the strain placed on an object is so great that it deforms beyond its elastic limit, it will fracture. This is true for a breadstick, a two by four and a steel column. If the force it great enough, the material will fracture. The physics stays absolutely the same

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-physics/chapter/elasticity-stress-strain-and-fracture/

In, the WTC, the outer walls were made of many smaller pieces were bolted together, so the first thing to fail would have been the connections between these parts.

Here's the type of destruction of the plane I was talking about. Even as the plane falls to pieces, those pieces are still doing massive damage. Like the shrapnel from a bomb does damage. https://youtu.be/3UvPWny_PBc?t=97

Do you believe Purdue or your own eyes? When we start dealing with huge numbers our eyes become very poor gauges. Most of what occurred would have occurred way to fast for human eyes or TV cameras that record 30 frames a second. Your eyes can't tell how much force a collision has. You can only see the effects. The entire point of using a physics software is to build an accurate model and then let the computer show us what happened after it does the trillions of calculations needed.

bopper

This is how it was done. Below. BTW your scientific animation simulated video states that the plane came out thru the other side of the bldg.! Ridiculous! You can "prove" anything you want w/ this simulated crap. Peter Jennings did it to "prove" Oswald acted alone. How many skyscrapers have collapsed, historically, due to fire? Three. The twin towers and bldg. 7. It's never happened before. It was extra hot jet fuel right? Lol. You sound like my wife, who read "Let's Roll!" And other propaganda. Of course the "Let's Roll" story had a homosexual hero.

Politics? I'm simply showing proof of reason they pulled this false flag off. It is well known that "a new pearl harbor" was needed to invade the middle east. Left and right wing are two sides of the same coin. We are owned by bigger interests. You've fallen for the "illusion of choice" and that a vote counts.There is no choice, historically. Both "sides" are warmongers, both sides fear the banksters. Etc. Woodrow Wilson actually stated this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPKq2K2dh6k

No plane hit the pentagon, no plane blew a hole in the ground, no bodies anywhere, no plane parts (oh, they'll show a few lol). I can't address the rest of your stuff, you will never accept it. You don't understand the evil that permeates this world and the psychos in charge. You need to go back to JFK first, you have cognitive hurdles to overcome, then you can move on to other stuff. Take the red pill. Why are you so stubborn and unteachable? Again, please show me a compilation of all the amateur footage that was taken. Yes of course hundreds could have, would have seen. BUT, eliminate all that is impossible (planes don't slice thru bldgs. and jet fuel doesn't bring down, thru fire, two of the tallest and sturdiest bldgs. in the world) and whatever is left, however improbable (hundreds, thousands would have witnessed planes), is the truth.

I used to buy the idea of drone controlled military planes at the very least (w/ some type of explosives aboard), but not anymore.

Are_we__sure

Steel structures fail due to fire all the time. See the 508 freeway in California when a gas truck crashed underneath it. http://www.mikesenese.com/DOIT/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/30collapse1.jpg

This is why on most building the steel support columns are either encased in concrete or sprayed with Spray-on Fire Resistant Material. Chicago built a new convention center in 1960 that was thought to be fireproof. In 1967, it totally collapsed in a fire. It made them rethink and update the fire codes.

It happen to school in Holland. The Steel frame side of the building collapsed while the concrete construction stayed intact. It happened to a 16 story building in Iran that completely collapsed due to fire.

It was extra hot jet fuel right?

The jet fuel would have burned out early in the fire, but what it would have done was ignite the entire floor pretty much all at once. It would have been an enormous football field of fire. The office had enough fuel to get the fire to 1000C in spots which signficantly weaken steel.. (one thing I learned while looking into this is the difference between temperature and heat. It's real counterintutive, but paper has more heat energy than thermite, kerosene much more so. Thermite is very heavy and releases all it's energy very quickly. A pound of paper will release more enegery than a pound of thermite.) However a plane crashing into the building and disitengrating into shrapnel going over 100mph, will shatter and strip the SFRM right from the beams.

Missing SFRM was visible in the damaged areas.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1262447893fa28df43.jpg

It was also missing in several areas before 9/11. (If you're in a high rise built before 1977, you can't expect the SFRM material is adequate.) http://www.fireengineering.com/articles/print/volume-155/issue-10/world-trade-center-disaster/volume-ii-the-ruins-and-the-rebirth/fireproofing-at-the-wtc-towers.html

You're jumping to politics because you don't want to debate the physics of the tower collapses because it's a losing debate for you.

So what's your theory.

No plane. Replaced by CGI on every camera that filmed the towers. All eyewitnesses lying. Energy weapon causes plane sized hole and fire.

Buildings burn for an hour and then what?

What makes the building collapse in your theory?

bopper

This is what happened to the towers. Below. They didn't collapse. They turned into dust. You won't accept this, I understand. Here's physics. Research Dr. Judy Wood. Alex Jones is a gatekeeper to keep the thermite truthers going and to guardrail against Dr. Wood. "To control the opposition, lead it." No kinetic energy brought the towers down, kinetic initially yes, to cause the explosions.

Politics has nothing to do w/ this. Doesn't matter who's in power, they're both warmongers. They're all puppets and controlled by their handlers, powerful, moneyed people. Mostly Jewish, and I don't hate Jews like everyone else here does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8tyi4O0Exw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdBQOe85i3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oZuM7Fq7AE

I get no pleasure from consigning that the powers that be have reached such evil proportions, it's heart-wrenching, and I would accept in a heartbeat the story given by the commission etc. but it just doesn't add up.

Are_we__sure

So you're into deeply serious nonsense. Good to know. They turned to dust. Oh boy.

Meanwhile in reality the pile of debris at ground zero was 10 stories high, even with tons of rubble in in the 6 story subbasement.

Again, I'm a New Yorker. I brought supplies down there. I know people who worked at ground zero. This stupid theories of how the builidng came down and it turned to dust were not going on when dump truck after dump truck was removing debris for months and months and months.

bopper

Wow. I wrote you a long replay and lost the whole thing. That's so aggravating. The rubble you're seeing is minuscule compared to what should be there. You wouldn't even be able to get relatively close to ground zero it would be heaped so high. Any hoaxes / false flags / conspiracies you DO embrace?

Are_we__sure

Wow. I wrote you a long replay and lost the whole thing. That's so aggravating.

I've done that. So irritating. VOAT needs a save, but not post feature. Or save then publish.

The rubble you're seeing is minuscule compared to what should be there. You wouldn't even be able to get relatively close to ground zero it would be heaped so high

When you go to the WTC memorial, where the buildings stood are two large deep pools that empty into an and even deeper whole in the center. There were six floors of parking/subbasements. The collapse was basically only stopped when you hit bedrock. It was travelling over 100 mph by the lowest floors. The WTC was known for big, wide open offices with few columns in the way. Most of the volume of the building was air. We see that "meterorite" they found at the bottom of the pile, 4 full floors compressed down into a rock 4 feet high.

So if you have 6 feet of subbasement filled with debris and a visible pile 100 feet or more, that's your building.

You wouldn't even be able to get relatively close to ground zero

This is where the scale of WTC space fools people and where photographs don't do it justice. There was a massive empty plaza around the WTC buldings. Today's it's a park surrounding the memorial. There's plenty of extra space for the pile of debris. People who don't know what they are taking about say the WTC fell in its own foot print. Well if that were so, how did so many other buildings get hit with falling debris. WTC 7 was at least a football field away, it was across this empty plaza and across the street from the WTC builidings and it got hit from its roof on down. Over 600 feet of damage. WTC 7 was like a 2 minute walk away. I walked it once.

bopper

Do you believe in ANY false flag, conspiratorial happenings, events, hoaxes at all? The govt. is benign and has your best interest at heart? If you believe the official JFK story then you're never going to make any progress. That one is a no brainer. Go back to the beginning w/ Mark Lane's Rush To Judgement and work forward.

I'm friends w/ many who historically were part of the event. People who knew Oswald and David Ferrie and Clay Shaw (and Ted Cruz's dad), people who were standing by the limousine and saw the head shot (this woman knows Trump personally FWIW), doctors at the Bethesda autopsy, Parkland doctor, black JFK secret service guy who Kennedy hired personally, CIA operatives and forgers, people who flew w/ Ruby, CIA pilot, children of these people and the actual grassy knoll shooter (his kids and Tippet's killer's kids), famous Jim Garrison interviewer John Barbour (has a walk of fame star).

I don't understand why you trust media when they lie time and again. I used to watch the Trump rallies (a lot, mainly because it was a "phenomena"), then turn on the evening news (Lester Holt) and see them completely lie and twist and soundbite POTUS's words. It was shocking.

I'm not speaking as a debater, nor am I "political," ... you think I'm "debating" you, I'm trying to help you. At least start w/ JFK, it opens the doors to accept other things. W/ the internet now there is no excuse to believe lies we've been fed for generations. History is written by the victors. We now have the opportunity to see who Hitler really was for example. So much more. It's an incredible day and age, we can now wake up, shake off the propaganda, and see the truth. I grew up being spoon-fed by three TV channels. The jig is up.

You probably don't have the time like others to research, sounds like you're working full-time. I got sick and was able to research for almost three years. I'm just now getting better. Trust me, there's a lot of garbage out there, and I'm no loon. The things I've encountered, it's like experiencing PTSD having to accept things. I'd just as soon stay in my comfy zone, forget it all, and eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die. But I can't now, I feel I have a duty.

The rubble ... yes that looks like a lot of rubble in the photos, but of course there would be some rubble and some of the building(s) still standing, but you're looking at a tiny fraction of what should be there, you've got an up close view there (and they didn't "smash into the ground," Jennings and George are in disbelief concerning the lack of rubble) ... Hudson River dam would have been breached and part of Manhattan flooded, we're talking TWO 70 plus story bldgs. Massive amounts of debris. No bodies were recovered either, no toilets, no filing cabinets, no plane parts, no desks.

You're a hard one to figure cause you seem sincere in your beliefs, not so much a "shill," to me. That's why I talk to you. But I don't think I'm going to persuade you of anything. Besides, you can't TELL or teach people, they have to want to learn and have the time to do so, and then discover it themselves. I laughed myself silly when I heard that people believed McCartney really died and was replaced, I thought, "what fools." Then I looked into it. I was shocked at what I found, sound, credible proof, a lot, too much to deny, and I had to finally embrace it.

There are photos post 911 immediately after, verifiable, that show the underground areas still intact, no rubble smashed into the ground. In any / all bldg. collapses and detonations the smoke never rises above the original height of the bldg. ... the "smoke" (dustified debris) here is blathering up and remaining suspended 70 stories in the air.

Are_we__sure

It sounds to me you skepticism about the media/government (which I advocate along with critical thinking) curdle into kneejerk cyncism and rejectionism. This is, of course, a lot easier than critical thinking.

In any / all bldg. collapses and detonations the smoke never rises above the original height of the bldg. ... the "smoke" (dustified debris) here is blathering up and remaining suspended 70 stories in the air.

This is kind of a ridiculous factoid, how smoke disperses would depend on the air currents. Updrafts would lift up smoke. First of all Nothing detonated at the WTC. Secondly, remember there was a massive fire going on, the original line of smoke went up with the hot air coming from the fire. http://www.photosmorning911.com/uploads/8/7/0/9/87092098/wtc-1-flat-cropped.jpg?1471798928

Also 70 stories in the air is far less than the height of the WTC, the smoke was over 110 stories off the ground. The scale of these buildings throws so many people off. I can also tell you as a personal eyewitness, once the smoke left the hot air of the trade center, it did not rise on that day, it went horizontal and east. This picutre is exactly how I remember it that day. The closer to the Trade Center it was black and dense, the further away it became dispersed and grey and then white. I remember walking to the river to get a better view and see the smoke get darker and then eerily, before I knew a second plane had hit, see the big PUFF of smoke in the stream of smoke representing the fireball of the second plane.

At the collapse, you can clearly see the smoke is different from the debris http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.49585.1313765183!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/gal-wtc-nypd-12-jpg.jpg

bopper

I'm a "big picture" type of person, in advertising, once we came up w/ the concept of an ad etc., I'd get bored quickly and pass it on to be executed. So once I found out who took the grassy knoll headshot I became bored w/ Kennedy, same thing w/ the twin towers, once I understood what happened (and I don't care so much about the whodunnit aspects and minor details) I got bored and don't study it anymore. Once the mystery is gone I move on to something else, and there's always been "something else" to move on to. As I research these things (again, it takes time), I will have these "aha" moments, like a light switch being turned on. I will then continue and try to affirm in my own head (trying to be objective as possible), that what I'm seeing is the truth, regardless of how improbable it seems (having ruled out all that is impossible). There is no way to understand some of these seemingly crazy things w/out investing the time, and most people are so rushed off their feet it is simply not an option. I am "lucky" that I got house bound long enough to do some serious research. W/ Podesta's and pedophilia, something is going on, but I can't accept it wholly w/out more proof.

bopper

It sounds to me you skepticism about the media/government (which I advocate along with critical thinking) curdle into kneejerk cyncism and rejectionism. This is, of course, a lot easier than critical thinking.

No that's not me. I've had time to do a lot of digging, it takes time and an open mind. Critical thinking is something I study. I hate to find myself, and I do at times, repeating logical fallacies and such. It's interesting to talk to an eyewitness of the events. We'll agree to disagree. I had a friend who was at the top of the towers just a few weeks before they collapsed, when he heard about it (he was fairly young) it changed his life it affected him so bad. "The scale fools you." I know, that's kind of what I'm saying to prove my point about the rubble (and the fact that photos don't do justice). I regret having never visited there tho I've been near.

Are_we__sure

I'm going to call you on this.

Critical thinking is something I study. I hate to find myself, and I do at times, repeating logical fallacies and such.

Ever see the Documentary Man on Wire? You should check it out. I won't even say anything more.

bopper

I don't mean I formally study it. It fascinates me because we are all such contradictions, products of many different things, and so very flawed. Have you watched David Eagleman's The Brain on PBS, I like that sort of thing, neurology, Oliver Sacks.

I've heard of that documentary, might have seen it. I will check it out again and watch it. Oh okay, I think that's the guy that walked a twin towers tightrope. If that's not it let me know. Thanks. I'll let you know if I pick up on what you're talking about.

eucalyptus_spearmint

He better NOT be protecting Obama!

bopper

Yeah, he would have made a pretty good "goat" here. Like George Carlin and Bill Hicks, they were ahead of their time. Thanks for sharing that, never seen it before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_dJNzDo8SQ

Alpha_Voat_Protecter

John might have been red-pilled at first, but I feel like Yoko Ono blue-pilled him hard, considering her stance on everything and the cucked nature of his later songs.

bopper

Yeah, I think you're right. And the dope probably factored in. He was a conflicted mess.

srayzie

Your recommendation didn't work out so good https://voat.co/v/pizzagatewhatever/2217335

bopper

Crickets. Lol. It's only because of all the happenings w/ Podesta and Manafort.

bopper

Not sure if that's the real donkey. If so he should continue his argument w/ you.

srayzie

I've read thru his comments. FAKE

bopper

I'm sorry! Darn it. Tell him again to step up his game.

srayzie

I did. Haha. This little faker acts like I have many alts and am trying to ACT like I'm female LOL

srayzie

He spoke the truth right there!

Aynswer2

But Obama is an illegitimate president. If you want to protect the highest office of the land then you must start by following the rules (LAW and ORDER). Sheriff Joe Apiro already proved that the birth certificate of Obama was forged, yet the news was buried because it came out right around the transition in the White House. Obama has ZERO actual evidence of being a US citizen, not to mention he killed his grandma the day before the inauguration. She’s the one who claimed to see him born in Kenya.

Dressage2

Holy shit!!! Are we also going to find the Moochelle is really Michael???

Aynswer2

That is the least of our worries gy

bopper

I know. And hopefully his time will come. But a drowning man will grab a straw. And right now I'm just glad to see some movement in a positive direction. The swamp POTUS faces is international, monolithic, well-financed (they own everything), and, humanly speaking, impossible to stop. He's got a full plate to say the least, insomuch that if he succeeds to any great extent, it will be only thru divine providence.

Aynswer2

He was able to get elected, wasn’t he? That was the first sign of many to come - that the people, regardless of our serfdom, GREATLY OUTNUMBER our oppressors. All it takes is an informed populace to stop it immediately. People need to wake up!

bopper

Carroll Quigley said that a democracy can succeed (and I have my doubts if any democracy can succeed, even representative, for long), only if the people are armed w/ the same weaponry as their rulers. That has happened w/ the internet. What happens next in the "course of human events and affairs" who knows, might be best that we don't know. "Start the Revolution Without Me."

bopper

Gosh you don't know the man do you? That's not the damn point.

alphabravo

This is the time for factual and normie -friendly PG meme warfare. This is the time folks, when we can super-red-pill a great mass of people.

SecondAmendment

Upvoat for ya, @Mad_As_Hell ! This is a nice piece of news for today, a day on which I'm too busy to follow too much. Great news! Roll, Manafort, roll. Roll on them all, bub. Make America Great Again, buddy.

bopper

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-30/tony-podesta-resigns-lobbying-group-amid-mueller-probe

Some funny comments below this Zero Hedge article. "With a sharp knife cut deeply into your middle finger and eat the uranium one."

srayzie

Some funny comments below this Zero Hedge article. "With a sharp knife cut deeply into your middle finger and eat the uranium one

That's the best! 😂 That would be a great meme

darkknight111

Thats the same picture Are We Sure showed as a death threat to Jem777.

bopper

The prison guards stood down when Dahmer was killed. Tony better hope he fairs better. Would he go to Club Fed I guess? Then he might be okay.

mooteensy

He doesn't stand a chance if other inmates communicate with people on the outside or even inside regarding elite pedo rings and what has come to light. Too many people know now.

BlowjaySimpson

Who else is in this group? They all need to be looked into.

bopper

"Manafort is going to roll on the Clintons and Podestas." This is from a twitter thread via Zero Hedge comment.

https://twitter.com/LarrySchweikart/status/924990097434460160

InnocentAngels

I had a good laugh with the nicknames he listed. He even had John as " Pedo ".

srayzie

Alex Jones said they told him that if he rolled over on Trump, even if it were a lie, that he wouldn't be charged. He wouldn't do it.

carmencita

God I hope so. Let it be true. Please.

Are_we__sure

It's not it's about lobbying on behalf of Eukraine

pizzaequalspedo

Awesome news!!!!!!!

I'm all for Tony Podesta going down even if it's only for money laundering/bribery, etc.

anon_sense

I’m not. It means their heinous crimes will be buried from the public - and then what?! Our precious children stay in the dungeons being raped and killed by their elite network. It makes me sick. FUCK the whole “Al Capone went down for tax evasion” argument....it’s not enough.

Blacksmith21

Not until information starts circulating around in prison indicating Podesta's likely crimes against children. Granted, it will be a Federal prison, but there is always someone willing to "step up to the table".

Grunge

Yup, I want the people to see what they DEMANDED everyone vote for. A bunch of sick, pedo fucking, satanic cult pizza ordering pieces of shit that they are. That way we can ridicule them with it, any time they try to argue about a damn thing you just bring that up and how violent they got when we didn't vote for that.

Dressage2

And we can tell them what dumb ass sheeple they are including my relatives!

Alpha_Voat_Protecter

The thing is, if we pile all the crimes on them at once, all of the cucks and SJWs will start to believe that all of the charges are fake across the board (resulting in similar feelings of falsified charges among the MAGA voters who haven't researched PizzaGate enough).

pizzaequalspedo

Fair point. Hopefully this leads to more and more investigation/evidence.

cantsleepawink

Agree.

migratorypatterns

Just about to post this!!!!

TIMBER!!!!!

Hahahhahaahhha!!!!