I'm concerned about some of the JP "Facts" ( pizzagate )

submitted by CantStopCrying

I hate being the one to pose questions like the following, but regarding JP, I've been concerned for some time that what is thought of as "evidence" feels pretty weak.

One piece of "evidence" that I've seen over and over again is the photo of JP with a fish and the number 14 painted on his hands.

I debunked that photo over a year ago and it has been used and re-used, bantered about and re-propped up and is still used today as proof of absolutely nothing at all.

(The debunking was in the form of a very obvious explanation: He was promoting the UN agenda related to saving the environment. All you need to do is read his Twitter for any length of time to see this is an issue he cares about.)

Goal #14 is simply: Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources...(Hence the FISH symbol and the number 14! Doh!)

The 14 and the fish are 100% directly tied to that, even on the UN website: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

I didn't join PG to particiapte in a witch-hunt or to falsely accuse people of anything.

Though it appears there are huge mysteries surrounding many OTHER facts/ideas behind PG, the echo chamber of actual bullshit needs to truly stop.

The internet should be scrubbed of that iconic 14/fish / photo and the guy should be apologized to over it. The explanation I proffered came pretty easily, just by reading many of his older tweets. His connection to environmental matters is pretty hard to overlook.

If the guy actually turns out to be just a passionate "foodie", then many here look a bit ridiculous as well.

THIS all said, IF anyone is actually hurting kids -- I have no problem with anyone continuing to do what we can, to put a stop to it and bring justice about for these priceless souls, but if all we have is a collection of assumptive facts and a fairy-tale narrative, are we doing right?

Yes. The Instagram stuff is beyond disgusting, but that wasn't JP. Yes, the bands are sick, but what does that have to do with JP? Yes, the comments by SL are over the top, but that was at CPP, not by JP.

Yes, I find JA to be uncomfortably creepy, but that isn't JP. Yes, the artwork is over-the-top disgusting, but that is TP, not JP. Spirit cooking looks reprehensible and gross, but does this prove what it has been assumed to prove?

The photo of the teddy bear in the adult bedroom is bizarre, but bizarre does not make a case such as what is implied.

Yes, I find the debunking and censorship over-the-moon bizarre, and yes, it "feels" like something is amiss in all this -- somewhere, but can we justify tormenting anyone whatsoever without any actual proof of anything at all?

I am not excusing/minimizing or making excuses for anyone. I just know for a fact that PG has gotten it wrong with several so-called smoking gun facts and is very slow to retract them -- and I find that disturbing to be a part of.

What I'm saying is that we need to be sure that this thread is always about keeping it real.

Seeking truth and telling the truth are not always the same and knowing the difference is essential.

rooting4redpillers

In my experience as an averagely-avid consumer of TV news, online news, online alternative news:

Anything Pizzagate is regularly dismissed and/or mocked by 99.9% of US mainstream media.

I looked this up, roughly 200,000,000 people in the US get their news from “news organizations.” In the online comments sections of US mainstream news outlets, commenters often join the journalistas in mocking pizzagate on many accounts - EXCEPT - when it comes to reports about John Podesta . HE does NOT fare well in those comments.

Twitter has 330,000,000 active users, worldwide. Plenty of pizzagate debunkers there - EXCEPT - when the tweet comes from John Podesta’s account. His tweets are regularly met with a delightfully-overwhelming firestorm of negative responses, many related directly to topics discussed HERE.

YouTube videos by the dozens, featuring John Podesta, with millions of views, and thousands (millions?) of comments, again, met with a firestorm of negative pizzagate-related comments.

v/pizzagate has ~15,000 subscribers, <500 active users at any typical time-of-day.

I only WISH v/pizzagate could have the amount of influence that you, by your heartfelt and lengthy submissions HERE imply. You have a much larger audience to address with your avid defense of John Podesta. This makes me question, why are you HERE?

pipilongstockings

What do you think of the sketches of the men last seen with madiline? That pic. with JP wasnt so much about the fish and number, but the cuts on his fingers. The witch marina art spell. Right?

surgeson

Why was this deleted?

CantStopCrying

His original tweet was from 2015 with the fish/14 pic.

It is here. The original Podesta tweet from Sept. 2015! It was actually his own tweet!

https://tweetsave.com/johnpodesta/status/647493788869365762

which related to this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

That pic was likely innocent.

CantStopCrying

Millenial Falcon says that I didn't have the fact I was questioning at the top of the post.

Of course, right?

ESOTERICshade

The "sustainable sea" is a double entendre. The "sea" is the Sea Of Humanity. We are the "fish" that live in the Sea Of Humanity. Their goal is to hook us with their bait. Making the sea "sustainable" means keeping the fish farm (our prison) well maintained so that we can be exploited.

When JP says he is worried about the "ocean's sustainability" what he truly means is that he fears his cult is losing control because people are waking up. Actually, he does not fear it, he knows it. His tweets about concern for the "oceans" are signals to his buddies about his fears of losing control of our perspectives and our captivity. He is afraid that too many of us are swimming out of muddy layers and into the clear water of true vision.

14 and a fish is a symbol for Osiris. Osiris is a symbol of their evil God archetype.

ConsumateArtist

Fishers and farmers. The table has never looked so full.

ConsumateArtist

I burst out laughing when I got to fish bait and my stomach still hurts from it.

CantStopCrying

I read your wonderful reply and also looked at the pics. Great stuff, but how is this anything but speculation?

What if the 14 and the fish simply refers to the 14th U.N. Sustainability Goal of protecting the oceans? http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

At what point, is something just as it is and nothing more?

That is why I raised the issue.

Seems like some people here will defend a "fact" for a very long time.

But what if a fact is not a fact at all?

ESOTERICshade

I read your wonderful reply and also looked at the pics. Great stuff, but how is anything but imagineering?

You are imagining that a man with ties to known child trafficking operations like the Clinton Foundation has good intentions. I am imagining that he does not. We are all attuned to different layers of the onion. Maybe a little more tuning would help.

Maybe you just need to lurk more. Learn more. Its occult symbolism

Mark Passio New Seminar On Satanism & The Dark Occult

https://hooktube.com/odw6q4fcORE

Podesta's Fish and 14 hand tattoos explained

Published by Tracy Twyman on Thu, 10 Nov 2016 21:08:27 GMT

https://hooktube.com/watch?v=VfNi71V2CRA

CantStopCrying

I watched/listened to a long Mark Passio video last week and just watched Tracy Twyman video.

Thank you!

I don't disagree with the possibility of such things being true, but in light of what may be just a very simple explanation as to that one piece of iconic evidence, why isn't is possible that the 14 and the fish simply referred to the 14 and the fish here:

http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/

I mean, that was the context of not only the original Twitter pic., it was ALSO the context of many, many tweets by JP that has to to with the environment.

How does one go from that ONE BIT OF "EVIDENCE" to cutting off penises, chopping up girls, screwing babies, etc?

What if his tweet WAS just a pure reference to http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/ ?

YES, it COULD be more than that, but aren't we just making up stories without KNOWING what it refers to?

I'm just not that willing to completely loose my thinking, that just because someone SAYS that it COULD be about Osiris or what/not, that it automatically ISN'T about what it purports to be.

Maybe that one fact is just what it was.

And that is what concerns me.

It is hard to break-through and pump the brakes here, when maybe we need to sometimes.

ESOTERICshade

I mean, that was the context of not only the original Twitter pic., it was ALSO the context of many, many tweets by JP that has to to with the environment.

Subscribing to benevolent intentions of a death cult will get you killed. Better get yourself a better pair of glasses. And if you are working for them know this. You are a fish too. You are expendable. They will clip your life as a sacrifice and a warning to others.

CantStopCrying

Oh Good God.

Nooo. I'm not working for anyone.

I asked about one fact: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

Is it possible that the 14 and the fish pic simply was taken out of context and spun into a fantastic tale?

Might it just have been about what it was about: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

And I get to listen to this rubbish?

Get off it buddy.

Take the glasses off and put the thinking cap back on.

This: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

May just mean this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

And the willingness to engage in fairy-tales around it, is sad.

Does that mean JP is innocent? Does that mean PG does not exist? Does that mean that all of this is a ruse?

I have no idea.

But that iconic pic of a 14 and a fish, most likely means just as it purported to mean: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

Don't be lazy.

Read JP's tweet feed until you find it and go back several more weeks/months.

It was pretty obvious what it referred to.

ESOTERICshade

Is it possible that the 14 and the fish pic simply was taken out of context and spun into a fantastic tale?

Nope.

Don't be lazy.

If we compared my occult knowledge to yours, yours could fit into a thimble.

Have a good day.

CantStopCrying

So, you went with lazy.

Go to JP Twitter and trace the origins of the Fish and the 14 pic:

https://twitter.com/johnpodesta

If it doesn't make you ultimately connect to this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/ you didn't do the homework.

If you go back futher than when that pic originally appeared in his feed, it becomes pretty obvious that he had been promoting environmental causes for quite some while.

The pic was taken out of context, by someone who trolled you and the rest of us, picked up on by many others, who then managed to do the same thing with it.

Is it just one fact among many?

Possibly. But it has been used in meme-warfare and it didn't have the integrity to be used in that way or in any way.

And that I find concerning.

The rest of PG?

Very scary stuff, but this singular fact ought be re-thought by any sincere person.

It matters, because we need to be brave enough to check our "work".

When we get it wrong, we need to own it.

In this case, few are willing to consider that they may have gotten taken in by this one.

Blowitwideopen

Well, of course.....becuz pedosta LIVES AND BREATHES to "save the environment"! So everybody, let's just shut down pizzagate and go home! CASE SOLVED!!!!

CantStopCrying

His original tweet was from 2015: Many of his tweets are about the ocean's and environment actually.

The original Podesta fish/14 tweet from Sept. 2015! It was actually his own tweet!

https://tweetsave.com/johnpodesta/status/647493788869365762

which related to this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

i think some of us were duped on this pic.

CantStopCrying

I didn't suggest that we disband.

I asked a question about a well-used "fact" that has been an Internet meme for months.

If that fact is just plain wrong, then I think it stands to reason that we mentally retract it and I also think it is reasonable to question our thinking if our thinking is colored by facts such as that.

Your sarcasm adds nothing.

Think it through:

IF a fact such as that has been used to color our thinking, then how clear is our thinking?

That is what concerns me.

Can you prove to me that the 14 and fish means anything OTHER than what it was directly connected with:

How long does this take?

Like 7 seconds: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

That is where the 14 and the fish came from.

Hell, it is the same basic fish he drew on his hands.

How is that proof of anything?

Read his Tweet history around the time of that photo being posted.

The guy actually DOES seem to live and breathe the environment. That is why I raised this concern!

What if the stupid thing we're calling a fact is not a fact at all?

That iconic photo has gotten a shit-ton of mileage and it is likely just a monumental ruse.

This has nothing to do with ALL the other PG-related stuff, but it DOES have to do with itself and deserves sober attention.

pipilongstockings

Maybe if you were only looking at one thing you could make any assumption. But taking in everything it paints the whole picture. Why are you having tunnel vision now? Maybe you arent here to promote investigation, but instead cause doubt. You really think skippy is innocent?

CantStopCrying

Skippy's original tweet was from 2015: Many of his tweets are about the ocean's and environment actually.

Found it! The original Podesta fish/14 tweet from Sept. 2015! It was actually his own tweet! I just saved it!

https://tweetsave.com/johnpodesta/status/647493788869365762

which related to this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

i think some of us were duped on this pic.

CantStopCrying

Thank you Pipi for keeping it real.

I don't really have tunnel vision per se, but there definitately are times that I see claims being made, that when I dial down my emotions, I realize are just that -- claims. Sometimes, taken one at a time, they appear ridiculous.

For example:

I posed the question about the 14 and the fish and I'm now being attacked by the moron patrol here.

I have an idea -- look into what I said!

If I've debunked a well-known "fact", merely by reading old Tweets, then that should be a concern to everyone here who is attempting to discern and operate from truth.

The shaming of people that ask legit questions is pretty plain to see and that is what increases my unease.

To be honest, I posted some other questions months and months ago from another account. I ws literally mutilated for doing so by my PG friends. That account was around a good long time. It seriously made me wonder what this had become. Was it JUST an echo-chamber? or was it a place for truth too?

The totality of PG -- The Instagrams, the bands, creepy CPP - all of that feels way off to me, but my feelings are not proof of anything, they are just emotional reactions to things that I find truly reprehensible.

Having visceral emotive reactions to things does not PROVE anything though and that is why I back-pedal at times.

I mean stepping back from all of this:

If you had to go into a court and prove that JP is involved with what is assumed by many to be be true at this point, what is the biggest "proof" you actually have that directly relates to JP?

Diverting attention to CPP or the Instagrams or the bands or to SL or to Kinsey or to everything else unpleasant, does not make assumptions about JP valid -- nor does all of that invalidate such a case.

I AM here to promote whatever is actually true and I'm extremely bothered by the notion that when a fact does not support the "theory", we attack the messenger and not address the fact itself.

When I see people here say things such as: "Um...yeah...looks like we may have gotten that 14 and the fish photo wrong", then I'll feel more likely that I am among truth-tellers and not executioners.

That's all I'm saying.

We have to be open to being right. ...AND wrong.

The shaming of legit people that raise legit questions is not a hallmark of truth-seeking, especially when it is done just to silence and not to actually "get it right".

JP comes off as weird to me, but if I were a juror of some sort, I don't think it'd be right to ruin this man's life, based on the strength of what I have seen or heard about him here. Might he be involved in dark deeds? Yes, he might. But I have yet to see anything that proves that to me beyond a reasonable doubt and when "facts" have extremely rational explanations and I raise them, I'm nothing but attacked.

Sorry, but for those that are here with integrity (Like you Pipi), that doesn't sit well.

DamnKeyhote

It's called a double-entendre you stupid asshole. It wasn't a party where he was flashing a gang sign, it was promotional material for their NWO BS and thus a perfect place to laugh in plain sight. Double = the ostensible meaning PLUS a hidden ("occult"ed) meaning. Anyway happy shilling

CantStopCrying

And/Or, perhaps,it was just about this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

You pompously declaring something doesn't make it a fact.

CantStopCrying

Because you" say" it does not make it so. What if it is not a double-entendre at all?

What if it is just as it appears to be?

Take 7 seconds and look at this: http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/oceans/

Do you see where the 14 and the fish came from?

Now go read JP's tweets.

He tweeted for MONTHS about the Oceans and the environment and then posted that pic.

Item 14...save the Oceans.

I think anyone that claims to see that for more, better have more than simply name-calling strangers on the internet.

jangles

knowing is a joke, gtfo

CantStopCrying

Huh?

jangles

your absolutes make you look like a shill or a fool, gtfo

CantStopCrying

Looks can be deceiving.

Listen.

I scrolled back JP Twitter about 6-7 months ago and saw the Fish and 14 Pic there. It was directly connected to this:

http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/

It has disturbed me ever since. I brought it up again, only because JP was just big news again here.

My "absolutes" are pretty obviously called facts, if you just check them.

jangles

Very little here is fact. Yet you are in fact on to a good relationship with this single issue. This picture may be just part of the UN SDGs, could there be more to it? is there a reason that they made that initiative # 14? https://fellowshipoftheminds.com/tag/14-and-fish-on-john-podestas-hands/