Sex Trafficking of CHILDREN is the Raniere and Mack Indictment Charge. Not a Single Media Source Has Reported This. ( pizzagate )

submitted by 13Buddha

Charges have only been reported as "sex trafficking," when it is 100% positively clear and accurate that the charges are "sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud or coercion."

Here's the Indictment https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4443573-Raniere-Mack-Indictment.html

Here is the explanation of 18 US Code 1591 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1591

Spread the word.

DeathToMasonsASAP

What dpes this have to do with pizzagate? Now some of you are saying no children were traficked. So why was this ever allowed at a pizzagate sub?

Cadster

what is the debunked tag about?

13Buddha

@Cadster , read comments for explanation.

DeathToMasonsASAP

Raniere is not being charged with traficking chilrden. That part is being covered up just as I said would happen when you virgins were popping the champaign. Cough, cough, Vindicator.

13Buddha

It's all about "legalese" and the ambiguity that is always present and the effective arguments that opposing counsel can present about the statute with a yes, no, maybe so result.

vYuNvmRUk8yn

This is what I thought as well, but it is incorrect.

The key here is the word in bold:

"sex trafficking of children OR by force, fraud or coercion."

As you will see, the indictment details the "force, fraud or coercion" part, not the "children" part.

This is not to say that the "child" part will not become a part of this later. The prosecutors did say they plan to file additional charges.

We do know that Raniere raped underage girls, originally from articles in the Albany Times Union. Those have been wiped from the net, but are detailed in early posts on FrankReport.com

If anyone has access to Lexis Nexis and can pull down the Albany Times Union articles by Odato, that will be epic. He interviewed dozens of members and victims.

Vindicator

13Buddha, I'm giving this the "Share!" flair. Anyone got memes for this?

@Srayzie , maybe one of your gifs? We need to beat the drum on this.

srayzie

Like pizzagate gifs?

Pizzalawyer

No, 13buddha was in error. A very confusing statute was misinterpreted. There are no children involved, at least not in the present indictments.

Vindicator

Ah! Thanks for that, Pizzalawyer. In that case, the headline and body of the post is inaccurate and we need to remove or flair it "Debunked". I will do the latter, so that folks see it and realize the nuance.

This seems to be happening more frequently, lately. Do you think you could ping all of us mods whenever you see this, so we avoid misflairing (as I have done twice, now, LOL)?

Cc: @think- @ben_matlock @EricKaliberhall @Honeybee_

Pizzalawyer

Im not on top of posts enough to catch these but Ill try. Too bad the word "debunked " has to be shouted out when the poster was acting in good faith. He or she could delete or repost but then some good comments disappear, like the news that there were victims who were minors though they were not part of the indictment.

Fateswebb

I don't see it as debunked, just as not yet proven.

Vindicator

Too bad the word "debunked " has to be shouted out when the poster like @13buddha was acting in good faith.

I hear you. We could create a different flair for this type of situation. We need something pretty strong, to balance the inadvertent "fake news". Any thoughts on what would be a good alternative? @13Buddha , what do you think?

13Buddha

Thank you for asking.

It's a judgment call, and I really don't see any other way. In this particular case, however, an easy title revision would have sufficed. If it is something that simple, perhaps a mod could grant permission to edit?

Vindicator

We would LOVE the ability to have users edit their titles. Unfortunately, that hasn't been coded into Voat so far. You are welcome to request it at v/voatdev and v/ideasforvoat . The more who request it, the more likely @PuttItOut will be to add it.

The best we can do at this point is have users add a headline-formatted subtitle at the top of the body of their post. When the headline is blatantly misleading/false, though, we still add a flair of some kind so that the thread can't be used against us. Unlike the WaPo and NYT, we actually care about spreading disinfo.

Pizzalawyer

@ 13buddha, I'm pretty certain the computer program does not allow a title to be revised even where there is a misspelling. This means you have to pay extra attention to your wording of the title which really doesnt apply in your case.I don' t think the problem arises enough to require any re-programming. This was a good thread inspite of the error.

13Buddha

Understood and thanks!

13Buddha

You answered my question, @Vindicator , that I just posted on askpizzagate. I understand. It takes an attorney to help us out every now and then to interpret "legalese." Too bad the title can't be changed to "Hopeful and Possible" Sex Trafficking of Children..." :)

argosciv

I'm still wondering about Gaelen, though.

@Vindicator

13Buddha

Ditto.

Pizzalawyer

Thanks 13Buddha for taking the time and trouble to look up the indictment and statutes. How can anyone make sense of the laws without a PhD in English! Or do these laws even follow the rules of constructing a sentence. Ambiguity invites appeals.

But I have to agree with @Exposethecriminals and @AreWeSure that Sec. 1591 does not apply exclusively to children. Sec 1581 thru 1596 is a comprehensive law covering all kinds of human trafficking, including slavery, identured servitude, etc not just sexual trafficking and applies to children and adults. Sec. 1591 sets forth the punishment for these crimes.

My interpretation is where force, threats, coersion or fraud is used (as opposed to enticement ) OR if the victim is a child not yet 14, the minimum sentence is 15 years and if the child is over 14 the minimum sentence is 10 years. This was poorly drafted in my opinion. What is the sentence for trafficking an adult without force, threats, fraud or coercion?

The prosecutor alleges that force was used which triggers the 15 year minimum sentence.

13Buddha

Thanks, @Pizzalawyer , for this info. Guess we can only hope that justice will be served and that Raniere, especially, is behind bars forever.

Pizzalawyer

Sentences for each offence and/or each victim can run concurrently or consecutively. Let's hope for the consecutive outcome of 15 years per victim. The act of branding these women constitutes force which should negate any defense that these women came to him willingly.

exposethecriminals

I don't have a law background, but while in my opinion Raniere and Mack surely trafficked children, I don't know if they have been charged with that, in this case. Just to mention, this DOJ article states 1591 applies to children and adults:

https://www.justice.gov/criminal-ceos/citizens-guide-us-federal-law-prostitution-children

18 U.S.C § 1591- Sex trafficking of children or by force, fraud, or coercion

When the victim is a minor, Section 1591 does not require proof that the defendant used force, threats of force, fraud, or coercion, or any combination of those means, to cause the minor to engage in a commercial sex act.

Yet in the Raniere Mack indictment, the federal prosecutor states force was used.

@pizzalawyer are you able to shed light on this?

albatrosv15

How did you find this?

13Buddha

@albatrosv15 , please elaborate.

albatrosv15

How did you find this document? If the news are silent about this, how did YOU heard about it? DId you crawl through every document or something?

13Buddha

It's all over the internet. An indictment can usually be easily found.

albatrosv15

Not a Single Media Source Has Reported This.

13Buddha

Correct. None that I can find anyway.

dooob

You are deflecting a very simple question, odd.

13Buddha

Fyi, I answered it. Take a look-see.

albatrosv15

Indictment document. What website is it taken from then? You took this document from somewhere.

13Buddha

I randomly searched "indictment Raniere and Mack," and Voila! it appeared as the link www.documentcloud.org. Nothing magical about this.

albatrosv15

I randomly searched "indictment Raniere and Mack,"

Hmm... You a prophet or something?

13Buddha

Everybody knows there was an indictment, for God's sake. So, why not search for it???

13Buddha

Meaning?

albatrosv15

How did YOU find this document?

Are_we_sure

This is not true. You would have to know the ages of Jane Doe 1 and Jane Doe 2 to see if they were being charged with trafficking of children.

There are multiple ways you can be charged with a crime under this law.

Sex trafficking by force

Sex trafficking by fraud

Sex trafficking by coercion

Sex trafficking of children

If a child is involved, you don't need force, fraud or coercion.

DeathToMasonsASAP

If there are no children being trqafickied, why do you think Vindicator allowed these Rainer threads? What does it have to do with pizzagate? Was Rainbow cultrue for adults?

Pizzalawyer

Vindicator allowed them because at first blush it looked like children might be involved insofar as 13buddha was concerned. Some commentaters took issue with that while other commentaters werent concerned. After some back and forth, the post was deemed debunked. However there appears to be some involvement by Raniere with minors even though there are no criminal charges pending. Let's see what shakes out over time. I think the threads are useful for the time being.

Are_we_sure

Who said there are no children being trafficking?

That's is not however, what this forum is about. You have to believe that all government are led by people who traffick and eat children. If you don't buy that part, there's no place for you here.

and Focus on NXVIM came from main stream media reports and law enforcement. This forum was following on that, not leading.

new4now

I think these women came from Mexico, at what age, would be a good question

ESOTERICshade

I bet those two Yiddish Bronfman sisters skate and never face charges. They should go down the hardest because they bank rolled the whole deal.

Food_Stamp

That would be anti-semitic though...

fuckmyreddit

Oh fuck it all. I'm getting tired of the Oy Vey the Jews did it. It's fucking divide and conquer at its finest. Jews are just more visible because they're in professions that highbrow gentiles disdain like acting and lawyering. Jews do the bidding of the ultra rich.

I'm with you on the subject of divided loyalty with dual citizenship and politicians, but I don't think jews should be the only perp on your radar. That being said, I hate jews who worship the almighty sheckel. People like kissinger destroyed our country and deserve to hang. However, I don't think Bilderburg is exclusively Jews.

GreenDell144

You have a valid point. There are plenty of bad guys here. Also, plenty of decent Jews. MS 13 aren’t Jewish. Raniere (I think) isn’t Jewish. The Saudis aren’t Jewish. People don’t have to be Jewish to be into witchcraft or satanism. Isn’t Abramovic in the Order of Malta (Catholic)?

This isn’t identity politics. This is about victims and individual perpetrators. We should hold these people accountable as individuals. Our enemies would love it if we go buck wild and turn int a bigoted mob witch hunt.

Let’s not do that.

Beaucephus

I used to think the same so I tried to find a counter argument. A jew who has lived selflessly and stood or spoken on behalf of another without compensation.

I was left with the idea that they simply don't function with compassion. Jews created the psychological industry, so I believe they are best to describe the ailments they create. What better way to divert attention away from yourself being a psychopath than to bring the very term to the world?

Sometimes we are forced to see things in the world we would rather not, but that doesn't mean those things don't exist. Acceptance and understanding are key elements to survival. Suppression and dismissal allow for manipulation and the Jew feeds on that manipulation alone.

HugeDouche

Nobody cares what you're getting tired off. Why don't you fuckoffbacktoreddit.

migratorypatterns

And why would they? They're still trying to bolster the Russian narrative to distract and dissuade, but like Q said, they're losing the narrative.

Then there's the Diet Coke scandal.

Oh_Well_ian

In fact, they are hyping the word SEX and insinuating NXIVM was some sort of 'Sex Club' where members were recruited and maybe, just perhaps, some against their will.

Examples >>

CBS Reporting: 'NXIVM leader Keith Raniere arrested, cult-like sex club '

NYTimes: Women branded with actress' initials in secret sex-slave club'

NYPost: 'Allison Mack Allegedly a Ranking Member of Sex Cult'

And of course, FOX had to throw in the Movie Star LESBIAN ANGLE: 'Allison Mack seemingly tried to recruit Emma Watson for alleged sex cult'

carmencita

I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop. When, I said to my husband, are they going to talk about the kids? When? They never did and they still have not. Also, they are not talking about the Rainbow Connection. Rainbow Cultural Garden. Again, Children. Also, they have not come out with any of the Really Big Names. TPTB.

Enigmatic_Continuum

This dude sounds so much like Warren Jeffs. Not exactly, but very similar. Very interesting that the media was all over him, but not Raniere. https://www.biography.com/people/warren-jeffs-20771031

Oh_Well_ian

Jeffs wasn't tied to the Clinton Foundation and the Bronfman Family ( tied to the Rothschild Family )

Jeffs was the typical 'Only Mormon's are perverts' story

Just like how Family Guy uses a geriatric in a walker as a stereotypical pedophile

Enigmatic_Continuum

You've hit all the bullet points! Maybe we need a meme comparing Raniere and Jeffs.