Dublin: Pope Francis asks for forgiveness in prayers at closing Mass

flyingcuttlefish 2018-08-27T17:15:55

child rapist won't ever, ever forgive pregnant teen for choosing to terminate unwanted pregnancy ... but begs the world for free pass to rape kiddies.... disgusting!

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EffYouJohnPodesta 2018-08-28T22:59:06

you mean choosing to kill the other victim of his crime

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notagame 2018-08-27T12:03:46

I thought the faith was based upon the Pope being infallible.

If you're infallible you don't make mistakes.

And you certainly don't need to be told that raping children is wrong.

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ClairesDeLuney 2018-08-27T02:53:10

Whatever! Please tell me there aren't that many ignorant, foolish people that are so sewn to their religion, that they find him sincere & without culpability

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fuckmyreddit 2018-08-27T09:51:31

Culpability. A word we don't hear often enough.

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Vindicator 2018-08-27T06:12:13

I think history will show that Catholics are more likely than anyone to hold their leaders culpable for letting pedos into seminaries and unleashing them on their kids. It's Catholics who are doing the reporting.

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EffYouJohnPodesta 2018-08-28T22:58:00

I agree with you Vindicator that Catholics are going to be the ones reporting. But I think it's time people stop trusting their children around any kind of priest, preacher, youth minister babysitter, tutor, teacher, or what have you. It's the reason I personally think women should be raising the kids while dads work. And it's the reason I stay home with my kids and home school. I don't trust anyone to babysit my kids. Too many horror stories and too many bad experiences in my life with bad babysitters, bad relatives and bad friends.

A pastor I know says that basically his kids will be supervised by him or his wife until they're grown, period. He doesn't allow church nurseries at his church. He also says it will be impossible for his daughters to ever be molested by anyone or lose their virginity until they're married because he will make it impossible because he won't let them leave the house alone for any reason etc. Sounds overboard but it's way better than your daughter getting raped or killed if you ask me...

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flyingcuttlefish 2018-08-27T17:18:00

... they are reporting a bit late. They blamed the children for decades/centuries. Battered woman syndrome all this time ... but now there is a big change with Ireland in the lead.

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twistedmac11 2018-08-27T10:24:32

Then why do they continue to go to church and pay their tithes every Sunday, knowing that at the head, this stuff is going on? How can people really think that if the head of a body is rotten, the rest of the body is okay? It's illogical.

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Vindicator 2018-08-27T16:55:10

Are you familiar with the doctrine of the Real Presence ?

Here's what one famous guy had to say about it :

“Out of the darkness of my life, so much frustrated, I put before you the one great thing to love on earth: the Blessed Sacrament… There you will find romance, glory, honour, fidelity, and the true way of all your loves on earth, and more than that: Death. By the divine paradox, that which ends life, and demands the surrender of all, and yet by the taste -or foretaste- of which alone can what you seek in your earthly relationships (love, faithfulness, joy) be maintained, or take on that complexion of reality, of eternal endurance, which every man’s heart desires...

"I can recommend this as an exercise (alas! only too easy to find opportunity for): make your communion in circumstances that affront your taste. Choose a snuffling or gabbling priest or a proud and vulgar friar; and a church full of the usual bourgeois crowd, ill-behaved children – from those who yell to those products of Catholic schools who the moment the tabernacle is opened sit back and yawn – open necked and dirty youths, women in trousers and often with hair both unkempt and uncovered. Go to communion with them (and pray for them). It will be just the same (or better than that) as a mass said beautifully by a visibly holy man, and shared by a few devout and decorous people. It could not be worse than the mess of the feeding of the Five Thousand – after which our Lord propounded the feeding that was to come.” - J.R.R. Tolkein

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twistedmac11 2018-08-27T17:16:24

So worship with, and learn from, unholy people because you can pray for them? That means you should continually support an organization that routinely protects child rapists? Do your tithes go right Into your god's outstretched hand? No, they support the church.

It still makes absolutely no sense that the people at the top are corrupted but somehow the teachings and (some) lower-level religious leaders have remained untouched. Who determines what is taught at church, what the accepted version of the Bible is, etc? Who determined what books made up the Bible in the first place? The same unholy people at the top. Do you really think they haven't altered any words of the Bible and changed what's taught to suit their needs? They'll rape/torture/etc. children, but they draw the line at changing religious teachings. Got it.

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Vindicator 2018-08-27T18:06:38

You totally missed the point. For Catholics, Jesus -- alive and present -- is the head of the Church. His teachings are quite clear. His example is quite clear. Why do you want to conflate those with the actions of corrupt men who clearly do not believe them, just because those men have acquired and abused power? Do you think it's fair and intellectually honest to judge a way of life by the actions of those who claim it but don't adhere to it?

So worship with, and learn from, unholy people because you can pray for them?

That's pretty much what Jesus said, yes. Are you aware of some religion where there is another option? Or any other group activity practiced by humans, for that matter?

You are essentially saying you want good Catholics to hand over their church and all its good works to the filthy power mongers who have abused and tried to destroy it and run away without a fight. For them, that is equivalent to abandoning Jesus on the cross, to suffer and die alone.

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twistedmac11 2018-08-27T18:36:29

His teachings are quite clear. His example is quite clear.

Teachings according to who/what? The Bible, written by man, not god. How can you guarantee its accuracy when the source, Rome/the Vatican, obviously has its own agenda? That's along the same lines of believing everything you're taught in school. There's always an agenda.

Jesus said to pray/worship with unholy people, sure. Everyone is unholy in their own way, pull the log out of your own eye, etc. But to trust a man or man-made item to tell you how to worship, believe, etc. doesn't make much sense.

Are you aware of some religion where there is another option? Or any other group activity practiced by humans, for that matter?

I'm aware of people who think for themselves, don't blindly follow what they're told is true, and don't necessarily adhere to a specific set of beliefs. That goes for all areas of life, not just religion. I would argue that that is a much more healthy way of approaching things when you don't have enough facts to be able to reach a conclusion without taking a leap of your god's favorite word, faith.

You are essentially saying you want good Catholics to hand over their church and all its good works to the filthy power mongers who have abused and tried to destroy it and run away without a fight. For them, that is equivalent to abandoning Jesus on the cross, to suffer and die alone.

No, I'm essentially saying I want Catholics to stand up for what is right and stop being ignorant, brainwashed zombies who continue to support the Catholic church when it clearly needs a complete overhaul. Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity, no?

Matthew 18:20: "For where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am with them." Catholics don't need to go to church to worship, according to the Bible itself. So how would leaving the church be the same as abandoning Jesus on the cross?

Believing and knowing are two different things. To beLIEve in something implies that you don't have enough facts to reach a solid conclusion, so instead, you choose to have "faith". But that also leaves room for your belief to be exploited by a third party, or for your brain - as amazing as it is - to form false conclusions. A healthier mindset is to never believe, only know or don't know.

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Vindicator 2018-08-27T23:03:01

Catholics don't need to go to church to worship, according to the Bible itself. So how would leaving the church be the same as abandoning Jesus on the cross?

I just wasted several hundred words explaining this to you. You didn't even bother to read what I offered. Which is sad, because it's an opportunity to understand the world around you better. One sixth of the world's population is Catholic people. Motivated by their faith, they fund, operate and lead more of the world's hospitals, schools, orphanages, clinics, and food banks than any other single group -- and they turn no one away from these services either. Many, many countries in the world would have no healthcare or education system if not for those "ignorant, brainwashed zombies" who you claim can't "think for themselves" or "stand up for what is right."

You clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about, and no interest in learning anything that challenges your belief . Such irony.

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Freecaris 2018-08-28T03:11:16

These responses are amazing Vindicator. I didn't think there were any posters on this sub who understood this about the Catholic church with all the horrible corruption that has taken root in Jesus' church. Thanks for this. It gives me so much hope.

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Vindicator 2018-08-28T04:41:22

Thanks, FC. I will probably take heat for it, but there are many Catholics on this sub, and they all keep their heads down. I think if Voaters knew how many Catholics are trying in any way they can to fix this, they would be ashamed of the ignorant bashing. That said, the saints have affirmed in every age in word and deed what Jesus said about the door to Heaven: you have to stoop to enter until you are as humble as a little child, so all that misplaced rage, misunderstanding and blame is an opportunity to help carry the cross and make right what depravity has wronged. Where there is evil, grace abounds all the more. :-)

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twistedmac11 2018-08-27T23:23:02

I did read what you wrote, but you're not really answering what I'm saying. I'm not saying Catholics are bad people. There are many good people in every religion. I'm still missing why Catholics feel they must continually support a church that has completely cracked from the top down. The Bible makes it clear you don't need to go to a physical church building to worship, and you don't need to associate yourself with one specific religion/church/leader/whatever to do good and charitable things.

You're talking in circles, not directly answering my questions, and then trying to convince me you're not one of the brainwashed Catholics that I'm talking about. Such irony. Explain to me why someone needs to associate themselves with a church in order to find Jesus, enlightenment, gnosis, or whatever term you want to use.

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spacepopecoast2coast 2018-08-27T05:24:32

VATICAN OFFERS 'TIME OFF PURGATORY' TO FOLLOWERS OF POPE FRANCIS TWEETS

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/16/vatican-indulgences-pope-francis-tweets https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vatican-get-time-off-in-purgatory-by-following-pope-on-twitter/

process that, that's not from The Onion... and still I'm certain many do hold the Pope in very high regard

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EffYouJohnPodesta 2018-08-28T22:52:51

that's the funniest thing I've ever read. So he actually thinks he holds the intermediate power of partial Salvation from "purgatory." Wow that is taking it pretty dang far. Idolatry and blasphemy.

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ClairesDeLuney 2018-08-27T07:49:34

Wow. Can't make this crap up. Here's your vip Vatican punch card. Fill your card up with ten punches, & you qualify for your very own 'get outta hell' card.