How RICO laws and Trump's Executive Order can paralyze the Vatican in the U.S.A. ( pizzagate )

submitted by Factfinder2

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/church-investigations-explode

Church Investigations Explode

The dam is breaking

"The dam holding back the silence is breaking, as state investigations into the cover-up by bishops of homosexual priest predation is beginning to expand.

Six states have now launched official investigations demanding that secret archives in each diocese be opened and the records examined. The dam of secrecy will completely break when the Department of Justice (DOJ) launches a federal grand jury investigation into the nearly 200 dioceses in the entire United States.

As more states begin their independent investigations, patterns and correlations involving clerical sex abuse will begin to emerge. This is because troubled priests were often moved from diocese to diocese, sullying more than one bishop, who covered for them. Individual states may urge the federal government to launch a national investigation simply because this would readily provide all the pieces to the puzzle of which priest came from where and what did each bishop know.

When these dioceses are located in other states, then the institutional cover-up of human rights violations will have crossed state lines triggering what's known as a RICO investigation. These are federal laws involving systemic corruption by a single institution occurring in more than one state.

When state after state begins to investigate sexual abuse, which is also categorized as human rights violations, it will fall under an executive order signed Dec. 21 of last year by President Donald Trump titled Executive Order Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption.

Like RICO, it's prosecuted by the DOJ. This order pertains to any institution located "in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States" that is found to be involved in "serious human rights abuse." The Catholic Church fits this description as does cover-up of widespread sexual abuse. This order gives the federal government the ability to confiscate from the institution "all property and interests in property that are in the United States."

Between RICO violations and the violation of Trump's executive order the Catholic Church would have far more to lose than the roughly $4 billion it has already paid out to sex abuse victims and lawyers."

Trump's Executive Order: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-blocking-property-persons-involved-serious-human-rights-abuse-corruption/

noone222

All of the freaks wear "robes" and pretend to serve the public ... humanity needs a reality check. The most self-serving are the pontificating phonies dressed up like Halloween ghouls prancing around in courts, or churches with a clearly dead Jesus hanging on a cross as they tell their congregation "He lives" ! The Catholic Church should be exiled to hell where it came from in the first place.

HennyPenny

One of the prerequisites for a RICO charge is Effect on Interstate Commerce – This merely refers to anything that has any effect on commerce when that effect is not entirely limited to one state. Any economic activity of any substance normally meets the criteria.https://www.federalcharges.com/understanding-rico-conspiracy-charges/ Would that apply to a religious organization?

Seems like Trump's Executive Order re: Human Rights Abuse has a few loopholes: "notwithstanding any contract entered into … before the effective date of this order" US has already agreed to treat the Pope as a head of state with immunity against lawsuits. Unless they go after the bishops one by one. If the Catholic Church is held culpable as an institution and it's head is guaranteed immunity in prior contract with the US, I don't see how RICO or the EO would come into play.

"the prohibitions in subsection (a) of this section apply except to the extent provided by statutes, or in regulations, orders, directives, or licenses that may be issued pursuant to this order, and notwithstanding any contract entered into or any license or permit granted before the effective date of this order.https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-blocking-property-persons-involved-serious-human-rights-abuse-corruption/

Factfinder2

There seems to me to be potential wiggle room in some of these areas for imaginative prosecutors and enforcers of the EO. For instance:

"RICO laws were successfully cited in NOW v. Scheidler, 510 U.S. 249, 114 S. Ct. 798, 127 L.Ed. 2d 99 (1994), a suit in which certain parties, including the National Organization for Women, sought damages and an injunction against pro-life activists who physically block access to abortion clinics. The Court held that a RICO enterprise does not need an economic motive and that the Pro-Life Action Network could therefore qualify as a RICO enterprise." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act#Pro-life_activists

I would argue, however, that shuffling priests around to different states DOES have an economic motive, namely, to preserve the perceived wholesomeness of the church and thus not endanger the flow of donations.

With regard to Trump's EO, I think the term "notwithstanding" is not a loophole but actually the prevention of a loophole, meaning that previous contracts will not prevent the execution of the order. https://definitions.uslegal.com/n/notwithstanding/

In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected the Vatican's plea of immunity: https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-lawyer-stresses-supreme-court-ruling-was-not-on-merit-of-case

"On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court declined an immunity appeal by the Holy See in a case that attempts to sue the Vatican for transferring a priest accused of sexually abusing a minor several decades ago."

If there are any chances at all, even slim ones, to prosecute or sanction the church, I'm hoping they will be pursued.

HennyPenny

Thanks for the "notwithstanding" definition. Hope there's a remedy in law.

The 2010 US Supreme Court support was eroded by Presidential interdict , if I read it right:

In the Oregon case, the Obama administration backed the Vatican and said the appeals court erred in ruling that a victim’s claim of sexual abuse by a priest falls within the exception to foreign sovereign immunity law. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-abuse-usa/supreme-court-rejects-vatican-appeal-in-sex-abuse-case-idUSTRE65R3UB20100628

There's laws and then there's politics.

Factfinder2

Yes, and I do hope this DOJ will follow the law and leave politics out of it. What Obama's DOJ did in the Oregon case was an abomination in my view.

HennyPenny

Obamanation is right.

Lansing-Michigan

This is short and to the point.....https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-blocking-property-persons-involved-serious-human-rights-abuse-corruption/

R34p_Th3_Wh0r1w1nd

RICO cases could be used to take down everything tearing the country apart, The DNC, AntiFA, MS13, Catholic church, Hollywood, ect, but the fix is in. The cops who are supposed to be upholding the law are the ones protecting and conspiring with these criminals.

DeathToMasonsASAP

Trump is a Jesuit, a Freemason and one of them. Stop with the disinfo. They are his superiors, he is not fighting them, he is pushing their agendas.

mrfetus

Blackpill.

DerivaUK

It bothers me that with the exception of Australia, there seems to be little mirroring of this en masse exposure in other countries than the Americas. Catholicism is international - nothing of this in the U.K. for example. But I hope those we know of in the US are all prosecuted under the E.O. Take their money, because it is disgracefully, the one thing they do actually value.

Factfinder2

Thanks much.

shewhomustbeobeyed

You're welcome.

KnightsofHubris

RICO does not apply

When these dioceses are located in other states, then the institutional cover-up of human rights violations will have crossed state lines triggering what's known as a RICO investigation.

This will not trigger any RICO cases because the underlying crimes are not RICO predicate crimes.

The Executive Order doesn't apply part I

The part about the executive order makes no sense at all if you understand what that EO is about.

When state after state begins to investigate sexual abuse, which is also categorized as human rights violations, it will fall under an executive order signed Dec. 21 of last year by President Donald Trump titled Executive Order Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption.

The executive order is tied to the Global Magnitsky ACT. People on Voat keep claiming otherwise when I point this out, but the executive order is about implementing the Global Magnitsky Act, a law passed before Trump became President. If you need proof of this, go to this Treasury Department page and click on the FAQ link. It's a PDF so I won't post the link here. https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/pages/glomag.aspx

the first FAQ says the EO implements the GMA.

What is the effect of the Executive order (E.O.) issued by the President on December 20, 2017? ..... The E.O. implements the provisions of the Global Magnitsky Human Rights Accountability Act (“Global Magnitsky Act,” Public Law 114-328, Subtitle F), which was signed into law on December 23, 2016.

Child Molestation is not a crime covered by the Global Magnitsky Act. There's a very specific legal definition of "gross human rights abuses in US Law."

The Executive Order doesn't apply part II

This part shows a further misunderstanding of the Executive Order.

Like RICO, it's prosecuted by the DOJ. This order pertains to any institution located "in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States" that is found to be involved in "serious human rights abuse." The Catholic Church fits this description as does cover-up of widespread sexual abuse. This order gives the federal government the ability to confiscate from the institution "all property and interests in property that are in the United States."

This first sentence is wildly off the mark. There are no prosecutions. There are sanctions. And the Treasury Department is in charge of them, not DOJ. There are no prosecutions, because the Global Magnitsky Act only applies to those beyond US law.

The Global Magnitsky act only applies to "foreign people." The law makes this clear in the first sentence of the section on sanctions.

The President may impose the sanctions described in subsection (b) with respect to any foreign person the President determines, based on credible evidence—

This mean NO US priest, NO US bishop, NO US cardinal is subject to the Global Magnitsky Act or the executive order. US person need not be a US citizen. This is defined right in the law

(1) FOREIGN PERSON.—The term “foreign person” means a person that is not a United States person.

(2) PERSON.—The term “person” means an individual or entity.

(3) UNITED STATES PERSON.—The term “United States person” means—

(A) a United States citizen or an alien lawfully admitted for permanent residence to the United States; or

(B) an entity organized under the laws of the United States or of any jurisdiction within the United States, including a foreign branch of such an entity.

If you want to understand that executive order, read the law it's connected to https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-bill/284/text

Does all this mean that priests can't be prosecuted?

No.

They can just use different laws to do it. For example you can be convicted of the crime of conspiracy without it being a RICO case.

HennyPenny

@knightsofhubris thanks for the clarification. This is what I come to Voat for: intelligent debate without rancor or negative downvoats for opposing views that often shed additional light

Factfinder2

It's obvious that the OP article is not discussing the crimes of individual priests so not clear why you chose to go debunking in that direction.

KnightsofHubris

I have no idea where you are going with your comment.

Neither RICO nor the Executive Order related to the Global Magnitsky Act apply in this case. That is simply the truth.

Other crimes that go beyond individuals....such as the crime of conspiracy...may apply.

Pizzalawyer

I agree that when exploring criminal remedies one needs to separate individual actions from institutional crimes as there may be different remedies. Add into the mix tbe application of a remedy to address a conspiracy of 2 or more individuals that do not implicate the institution. Conversely, there can be one or two individuals controlling an institution that might trigger overlappjng remedies. Im thinking about the Clinton Foundation.. I say "throw the book " at them. The possible application of one or more remedies is exactly where that expression comes from.

Im too lazy to sort out the conflicting issues of this post; ill leave that to the OP.and commentator. Your point is valid.

Pizzalawyer

@knightsofhubris : Thanks for the legal education. The law can be so complicated. The OP was quoting directly from the publication Catholic Militant which apparently needs your technical guidance.

DeathToMasonsASAP

They control the courts system and our entire government. Stop speculating about them being arrested. International bankers, British Crown and Vatican are the controllers. Our government works for them. The controllers collect and keep our taxes, not our government. IRS is theirs.

mrfetus

Black pill.

notdivided

The catholic church has structured itself to protect against this very thing. Check the info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_sole

Factfinder2

Apparently the level of real protection ensured by corporation sole status is up for debate.

Corporation Sole Myths: http://hushmoney.org/corporation-sole_myths.htm Archive: https://archive.fo/EeYfv

notdivided

It just says you need good lawyers to pull it off. Pretty sure the catholic church and mormons are good to go on the lawyer$$ The article is just warning you cannot use corporation soles as a lay person (or ministry) and think it's going to offer you all these hardline protections without real legal representation.

jewd_law

You mean this trump?

trump 911 case closed

A zio stooge like trump isn't going to do fuck all for the people. He's israel's bitch.

Pizzalawyer

Great find. Subjecting the Catholic Church to RICO prosecutions and seizing church assets is the least that can be done. Saving souls is just a pretext for what in reality is a franchised pedophile operation and thus the Church should also lose its tax exempt status. Priests belong in prison, not the pulpit.

KnightsofHubris

How do you get around the RICO predicates? The underlying crimes are not part of the RICO statues.

And you may believe this, but this is not a view that would stand up to any legal scrutiny.

Saving souls is just a pretext for what in reality is a franchised pedophile operation

If you work at a McDonalds' franchise you sell burgers. All priests do not molest kids.

Factfinder2

Not all priests belong in prison, obviously, but how the "good" ones could remain in affiliation with the corrupt institution is unfathomable.

Pizzalawyer

The good ones could leave the Catholic Church and become Episcopalians